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Original poster

TUC saying parents should be furloughed if schools are off

208 replies

BubblyBarbara · 04/01/2021 02:09

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55522104

Maybe this is more AIBU territory but I feel that while this advice is good intentioned, it's actually very dangerous for parents! While it will work for many people, there are others whose employers will put furloughed employees at the front of the queue for potential future redundancies or might even find they continue to operate fine without the employee. Parents who don't need to take furlough and are OK working from home with children present might also feel pressure to be furloughed they wouldn't otherwise. Is TUC being reasonable with this "advice" to employers?

OP posts:
MessAllOver · 04/01/2021 06:00

@SnowGnome. Mothers' working hours fell 40% during lockdown last year and they lost on average £5,000. They are 47% more likely to have lost their jobs or resigned. It doesn't sound like employers are doing a very good job of helping mothers (and it is mostly mothers, it seems Hmm) to make things work.

Bakeachocolatecake2day · 04/01/2021 06:02

furlough is not free to employers, they still have to pay 20% + NI(13.5%)+Pension+accrued leave.

As an employer I'm very flexible, but I have bags of work in my business (think parcel delivery), and for everyone who stays at home I have to employ someone else or pay overtime.

99% of my employee parents are very sensible and ask for a combination of changed shifts so they can share childcare with partners, holiday or parental leave (I usually give changed hours and furlough). 1% are asking for full time furlough as "they don't have childcare". This same 1% were a nightmare to get back after the 1st wave, and will be first out of the door once it's all over.

DianaOfTheLakes · 04/01/2021 06:05

This same 1% were a nightmare to get back after the 1st wave, and will be first out of the door once it's all over.

Exactly my point. This 1% seem to be the vocal ones on mumsnet at the moment.

RosesinGranGransgarden · 04/01/2021 06:07

No one has come on here with a suggestion of what working parents can do if they aren’t a key worker and can’t wfh. What would you do in their position?
Also it’s not just parents who take the piss with furlough/ wfh. I know lots of people who go to the gym when they’re working or don’t check their emails until 10! The problem with the first furlough scheme is that you could get another job whilst furloughed so my friends colleague asked if she could stay on furlough for longer as she quite liked working full time whilst being paid 80% of her current wage from her other job.

OldAndWornOut · 04/01/2021 06:09

I don't have childcare.
It's not an excuse; it's fact.

So, I go to work (keyworker) and leave my teen alone.

As I said, there are few winners in this situation.

Ozgirl75 · 04/01/2021 06:09

@DianaOfTheLakes

This same 1% were a nightmare to get back after the 1st wave, and will be first out of the door once it's all over.

Exactly my point. This 1% seem to be the vocal ones on mumsnet at the moment.

Agree - I also run a business and some of my employees can’t get out of work fast enough, whilst others have really stepped up. We are planning a restructure this year and I’m afraid that the ones who have used Covid as an excuse to slack off are in the firing line. We have been very flexi in terms of working from home etc but we are a small business and can only do so much.
Bakeachocolatecake2day · 04/01/2021 06:13

[quote MessAllOver]@SnowGnome
why shouldn’t employers be expected to provide flexibility?

Employers have already been flexible. They spent the whole of last year being flexible. Most have run out of flexibility.[/quote]
I personally ran out of flexibility when I had bags of work on the summer, and yet really struggled to get a minority of employees back to work. Pandemic at that point was low, things more normal.

I removed furlough from therm and magically they reappeared.

RosesinGranGransgarden · 04/01/2021 06:16

I’m sorry but personal circumstances must come into it. A single mum of a 4 year old with behavioural problems cannot be as present an employee as someone with a partner who is PT or WFH. Also the job factors into it too. Sick of being told by MN to get up and do a few hours before the DC’s wake up when I’m a PA so need to be working when my boss is working! I can’t work later as he’s not there.

SnowGnome · 04/01/2021 06:21

@MessAllOver I’m guessing we are meaning different things by “flexibility”. Are you talking flexibility around furlough or reduced hours? I was really referring to working practices and responsibilities as a two way thing (not just employee takes all). I can see how a lot if people take the piss. It’s something govt has to try to do better this time

DianaOfTheLakes · 04/01/2021 06:22

I’m sorry but personal circumstances must come into it. A single mum of a 4 year old with behavioural problems cannot be as present an employee as someone with a partner who is PT or WFH. Also the job factors into it too. Sick of being told by MN to get up and do a few hours before the DC’s wake up when I’m a PA so need to be working when my boss is working! I can’t work later as he’s not there.

It's up to your employer to decide whether or not it's worth retaining you as an employee, given your personal circumstances. Your employer's priority is to keep that business running. The government can't legislate for every personal circumstance.

OldAndWornOut · 04/01/2021 06:22

It seems anyone with personal circumstances is going to be ousted at the first opportunity.

notevenat20 · 04/01/2021 06:26

The TUC has never been very interested in the health of the economy, which is weird because a healthy economy means plenty of well paid jobs.

DianaOfTheLakes · 04/01/2021 06:27

It seems anyone with personal circumstances is going to be ousted at the first opportunity.

Hyperbole, as I've come to expect on these threads.

Those who are ousted will be those who are unable to complete the work (that they are paid to do) to the required quality and within the required timeframes necessary for the business they work for to perform well.

OldAndWornOut · 04/01/2021 06:28

Again.
Nobody comes out of this well, do they?

RosesinGranGransgarden · 04/01/2021 06:30

@DianaOfTheLakes and in normal circumstances that would be reasonable but these are not normal circumstances. I take issue with any employer who has had the luxury of the school system to help with childcare not being able to understand how that infrastructure being taken away will affect working parents.
And so again I ask you, what do you expect them to do?

MRC20 · 04/01/2021 06:33

During the first lockdown last year a member of my team was chosen to go on furlough. I had no childcare and requested to take my team mates furlough place (she hadn't wanted to be placed on furlough anyway). My boss asked me if I was sure at the time as they'd been no plans to furlough me and if there were any redundancies it would likely be those on furlough first to go.

My boss was a decent sort and was honest with me. I didn't want to but I had no choice, I have 2 toddlers and no childcare. Sure enough I was furloughed then made redundant. It's shit, I don't see what else I could have done.

Furlough is risky, but it gave me a bit of extra time to plan before I lost my job though. Parents aren't daft, as soon as nursery/school closures were announced last year I knew I'd be unlikely to keep my (demanding) role.

DianaOfTheLakes · 04/01/2021 06:36

I take issue with any employer who has had the luxury of the school system to help with childcare

Any employer who has had the luxury of the school system to help with childcare? Really? You chose to have children, your employer didn't force you to have them.

Bakeachocolatecake2day · 04/01/2021 06:41

@OldAndWornOut

It seems anyone with personal circumstances is going to be ousted at the first opportunity.
Not at all, something like 50% of my employees are parents or carers. I have managed to make changed hours/holiday/unpaid leave/furlough arrangements with all bar a tiny minority. 100 employees, I have "arrangements" with 50 of them and am running very complicated shift patterns as a result.

1 person is and has been a complete and utter PITA, for whom no arrangement will work unless shes fully furloughed for the duration who will be 1st out of the door. Bear in mind this person has a husband who does not work.

Dugee · 04/01/2021 06:42

I take issue with any employer who has had the luxury of the school system to help with childcare

What a ridiculous statement. School is not childcare.

Bakeachocolatecake2day · 04/01/2021 06:42
  • he lost his job in the 1st lockdown, so he can't do childcare as he is "looking for a job"
OldAndWornOut · 04/01/2021 06:43

Well, if anyone comes up with practical, workable ways through this, I'd be more than interested to hear.

OldAndWornOut · 04/01/2021 06:46

School is childcare.
It's the first thing a job coach establishes when you're job hunting; the hours you have free whilst your child is at work.

I'm not saying it's right. It just is.

Dugee · 04/01/2021 06:51

The problem is, we are heading for a recession and those employees who have not shouldered their fair share of work (for whatever reason) will be the first ones to go. It's not fair, given the circumstances we all find ourselves in. However as other posters have said, businesses exist to make a profit and those employees who can't or won't contribute to that will be the ones who lose their jobs.

I think the TUC advice is dangerous, as it's encouraging employees to take a demanding approach to their employees when a conciliatory, how do we make this work approach is much more appropriate.

Dugee · 04/01/2021 06:52

@OldAndWornOut

This has been done to death on the teaching threads. Schools are there to educate children, not provide childcare.

OldAndWornOut · 04/01/2021 06:54

Fair enough.
I would do exactly the same if I was a business owner.

It's difficult all around for everyone.1

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