PM to decide tomorrow whether to put whole country back into full lockdown.

[Calmandmeasured1]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9109023/PM-decide-Monday-plunge-England-lockdown.html

The people who aren't following the mixing rules won't even if there's a stricter lockdown.

@RaggieDolls I know I'm missing the point here but we had a thief operating in the office tuck shop once. We had to have a sting operation and everything.

The thief seems to be at large again!

I think it's unfair to bash Boris all of the time.He's stuffed whatever he does.

Boris can get stuffed!

I think if the vaccines don't work against the south African strain Boris is fucked.

@treedragon

Seem to me people think the economy and money is more important that keeping people safe and well. What a sad world we live in.

Economies can be rebuilt over time - lost lives are lost for ever.

The economy IS people's lives.

What else will you ban because lives are lost forever?

Because less than 1000 people under 60 without serious underlying conditions have died from it?

The ‘serious underlying conditions’ are not necessarily life limiting.

Why do you think it’s ok to make value judgements about the lives of those 60+ anyway? It’s a revolting attitude.

@treedragon

Seem to me people think the economy and money is more important that keeping people safe and well. What a sad world we live in.

Economies can be rebuilt over time - lost lives are lost for ever.

The economy is people’s livelihood. Their homes, jobs, their children’s.

Do you worry about the economic impact on you personally or are you untouched by it?

Even if on benefits these can be reduced if the economy reduces.

I found lockdown hard the last time, but in one sense lucky because I was furloughed and didn't have to work at the same time as facilitating home school (but our household income was drastically impacted as DH is SE and had much less work than normal)
I am neither rich or an office worker but Im starting to wonder if a planned lockdown would be preferable to the prospect of multiple, unexpected closures or periods of self isolation, or starting schools, shit hitting the fan and then lockdown anyway...
But I realise that is easier for me to say and I am lucky to have a) suitably aged children who can (to a degree) deal with online learning and b)potential to be at home.
As a parent my overriding sense is that it would feel safer if my children were at home....but I know they are much happier going to school, seeing friends, being taught in real life...so its a hard choice.
BTW I felt Boris was a bit damned if he does, damned if he doesn't about Christmas mixing, although he did leave it to the 11th hour...but now I feel he just doesn't want to agree with Keir Starmer (or anyone else!)

A true lockdown would mean

NO supermarkets or deliveries - eating out of your store cupboard
NO takeaways - as the kitchens are hotspots
NO online shopping - as the warehouses are hotspots
NO home care visits for the elderly or disabled

Lockdown is a nice idea for those who click the Ocado and Deliveroo pages
its a bit shit for all the people on minimum wage who make it happen

I also agree the economy and health are not easily separated.
The economy isn't just city financiers on 6 figure salaries, its everyone whos paying tax that pays for NHS, teachers and public services so not easy. Interestingly most of my friends calling for a lockdown the first time were all those in public sector jobs who could mainly wfh.

Economies can be rebuilt over time - lost lives are lost for ever

But destroyed economies also have human consequences. Suicides and violent deaths increase, as do those due to poor health and poverty.

It's not simply a case of everyone waiting comfortably at home until it all blows over, far from it.

Its not just about people dying, its about the amount of people and thats in all age groups that will need the hospital regardless of covid or not!
If the hospitals are overwhelmed by covid and you need hospital treatment for anything else and you can't what then!
Not just that but the more time this virus has a hold more mutations can happen and maybe one of them will make the vaccines not work!
We need to suppress the virus as much as possible .

When is he announcing this? Anyone have a crystal ball?

@Cheeseboardandmincepies

When is he announcing this? Anyone have a crystal ball?

'Soon' or 'in due course'. Some time this year, today, this week, this month, take your pick.

@BarbaraofSeville

Economies can be rebuilt over time - lost lives are lost for ever

But destroyed economies also have human consequences. Suicides and violent deaths increase, as do those due to poor health and poverty.

It's not simply a case of everyone waiting comfortably at home until it all blows over, far from it.

I only hope that Sunak finally accepts his stupid mistakes re the self employed support schemes and finally provides support to the 3 million excluded. It's an absolute disgrace that 10 months on, he still hasn't sorted out his flawed and anamolous support schemes which give plenty of support to self employed who don't need it but nothing for those desperately in need.

@ListeningQuietly

FULL LOCKDOWN does not exist. Millions and millions of people are working hard all day every day

• to provide food and groceries
• to prepare meals
• to run care homes
• to run hospitals
• to provide utilities
• to provide emergency services
• to pack and deliver all the online shopping

Lockdown could only truly happen if all of those closed
which will never happen

Only the rich and office workers have the luxury of staying at home

Very true, I wish people would stop using the term "lockdown" - surely lockdown would be not leaving your home at all, ever?

Because less than 1000 people under 60 without serious underlying conditions have died from it?

If we take out everyone over 60 or with serious underlying conditions, Harold Shipman never killed anyone. He still went to prison because the lives of those who are over 60 are still valuable.

I know this has been going on for nearly a year, but I’m honestly still astounded by the number of people happy to state that other people’s lives are worth less than their own.

@ListeningQuietly

A true lockdown would mean

NO supermarkets or deliveries - eating out of your store cupboard
NO takeaways - as the kitchens are hotspots
NO online shopping - as the warehouses are hotspots
NO home care visits for the elderly or disabled

Lockdown is a nice idea for those who click the Ocado and Deliveroo pages
its a bit shit for all the people on minimum wage who make it happen

Plus with about half the country 'in a bubble' of one sort or another, which most seem to be taking as a magic forcefield that prevents transmission while they carry on as if the virus doesn't exist, that, along with most schools still being open, means that we're so far from true lockdown that its fairly meaningless in preventing transmission, as the numbers of infections demonstrates.

If we take out everyone over 60 or with serious underlying conditions, Harold Shipman never killed anyone. He still went to prison because the lives of those who are over 60 are still valuable.

Sorry, I digress, but it's exactly that thinking that allowed Shipman to get away with his crimes - because most of his victims were elderly and society in the main ignored how most were still valued members of their local communities.

I think the reason so few people without underlying health conditions have died days more about the general state of health of the population

What percentage of under 60s actually have no underlying conditions?

And no, I don't think we should other the over 60s either

Yes, I'm a bit perplexed as to how its always just one more lockdown to get Covid under control, but none of the lockdowns have ever succeeded in getting Covid under control.

I think you're making up your own narrative here. Right at the beginning, it was made clear that we'd probably be looking at a cycle of lockdowns of varying severity, so the message has never been "just one more". And the purpose of them is to get Covid to a level whereby the health service can function, which the last lockdown demonstrably did (e.g. the Nightingale hospitals were stood down; many trusts were able to restart other treatments). We're now at a point where the relaxation of restrictions coupled with the new variant is seeing hospitals becoming overwhelmed again, with the risk not only of being unable to treat Covid patients but anyone needing urgent medical attention - heart attacks, RTAs, cancer diagnoses etc. And so the cycle will have to continue, shit though it is, until the vaccine starts to make a discernible difference.

Very grim news from the frontline can't see anything but a total lockdown touching the sides of this. To think these shits wanted to save Christmas for this clusterfuck.

"I’m also told that in one London hospital, psychiatric nurses and other mental health staff have been redeployed to provide support to staff on ICU. One staff member tells me:
“Nurses are walking off the wards in tears, some have resigned. They are dealing with PTSD...”
“...from the multiple traumatic deaths they are witnessing and then having to go back for more. We need everyone to be more cautious. People need to avoid mixing and stay at home. We can’t take much more of this.”

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1343682938697900034.html

Underlying conditions have also included things like autism and depression..

Yes, I'm a bit perplexed as to how its always just one more lockdown to get Covid under control, but none of the lockdowns have ever succeeded in getting Covid under control.

The first lockdown did exactly that. Infection rates and deaths were very low in Summer. It did exactly what it "said on the tin" it would do. The November lockdown also reduced numbers, but it wasn't long enough to reduce numbers to low enough levels. The graphs of both infection rates, hospitalisations and deaths show the lockdowns worked as planned.

No one expected the lockdowns to "cure" it or eradicate it. Right from last March, it was clear that restrictions and lockdowns were to keep the infections, hospitalisations and deaths down to manageable levels until the vaccines.

Surely you havn't forgotten all the media coverage, daily briefings etc that talked about reducing the peaks.

People seem to prefer to blame Johnson rather than themselves.

Just be glad we aren't in the EU, France got 500,000 doses and has immunised 350.