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Keir Starmer calls for immediate lockdown in England

172 replies

herecomesthsun · 03/01/2021 16:00

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/03/keir-starmer-calls-for-immediate-lockdown-in-england-as-covid-cases-soar

OP posts:
HeadIsFucked · 03/01/2021 18:18

No misinterpretation of the rules, no misunderstanding, and easier to enforce

The police say repeatedly they cannot enforce this.

And its a bit optimistic to assume rulebreakers have misunderstood the rules, at this stage I think.

Boris has 100% lost the public now. It would have happened gradually over time (and was happening quite slowly, from what I have seen anyway) and was predicted to early on also, but his ridiculous 'this will definitely be the case' and u turning 3 days later, flip flopping, directly contradicting himself at times, the many 'this will cause a second wave and kill hundreds of thousands!' about beaches, VE day, loads of things (that was the media more than boris I think though) along with the pathetic show of EATHO followed by people being blamed for doing what they were told to do..then followed by 'oh no, its not that important, close again!' and stuff like that, especially mixed with 'schools are 100% safe!' while saying seeing one member of your family will cause certain death to thousands..eventually it wears thin with a lot of people.

HeadIsFucked · 03/01/2021 18:19

And if Boris had announced (say, a week ago,) that we were all going into lockdown for a month, from 27th December, Keir Starmer would have said it was 'reckless and irresponsible,' and 'another lockdown would be devastating for the economy.' And 'what's more, if the two lockdowns we have had have shown us anything, it's that lockdowns don't work!!!'

Thats true also though. Generally this is the job of the opposition, but at times like this, I feel a bit of unity might be better than gaining popularity by messing about like this!

Haffiana · 03/01/2021 18:21

@GypsyLee

Yes, but what did the 454 people die of, sure they were positive but they probably died of flu.
I think you got lost on your way to Facebook?
fliss444 · 03/01/2021 18:23

KS is not pro-active. He just responds and plays politics. Damp dishcloth comes to mind not unlike John Major in his day. I had high hopes for The Labour Party after The Clown was kicked out but I really see no future for him as a genuine and viable opposition. My personal opinion of course.

Bluethrough · 03/01/2021 18:24

@littlepattilou

And if Boris had announced (say, a week ago,) that we were all going into lockdown for a month, from 27th December, Keir Starmer would have said it was 'reckless and irresponsible,' and 'another lockdown would be devastating for the economy.' And 'what's more, if the two lockdowns we have had have shown us anything, it's that lockdowns don't work!!!'

Upshot is... just like his predecessor, (Jeremy Corbyn,) no matter what the Tories do, it's 'WRONG,' and they will always say something contrary to it.

Bit pathetic actually. It's all about point-scoring with Labour these days.

Labour have agreed with the tories more times than not on this pandemic and on Brexit. They supported the xmas restrictions, didn't vote against further restrictions a few weeks ago, supported extension of furlough too.

So its a little unfair to say they always oppose, however, opposition parties that agree with the Govt of the day are rarely rewarded by the electorate or their supporters - Pls see the Liberal Democrats.

The clue is in the name "Opposition"

CoolKitkat · 03/01/2021 18:27

@HeadIsFucked - how did police enforce it in March? I think whatever was done then, is bound to bring the R-number down just a bit? Whereas doing nothing leaves us on the same trajectory to rising cases and chaos.

Also, I know of several examples from FB and WhatsApp of people arranging to meet up outside for walks because they think that's allowed. If you've been moved from Tier to Tier over the past several weeks, it's easy to lose sight of what's permitted, especially when everyone is so fatigued with all of this.

I'm yet to see anyone suggest something else to bring the R-number down?

Nobody wants a lockdown, of course not. Nobody wants to get ill. This is the reality we are in currently - and our collective actions affect us all.

littlepattilou · 03/01/2021 18:30

@Bluethrough Fair comment.

Bluethrough · 03/01/2021 18:35

I think starmer was criticising BJ for his "maybe we have to have tougher restrictions in the coming weeks"

KS then responded with "Get on with it and stop dithering"

Delays so far have not worked out well for the uk.

Deaths are one thing but its the hospitalisations that are really worrying, those poor staff having to deal with this, it must be heart breaking as well as extremely stressful.

1dayatatime · 03/01/2021 18:36

@ivykaty44

more small businesses were registered in 2020 than in 2019 just because we shut down or lock down doesn't mean a worse time afterwards, in fact a decisive government with a plan would shut down now in the quieter months ready to open back up when safe with confidence
Due to the tax change that came into force in 2020 a lot of this is down to buy to let landlords putting their properties into Limited companies in order to be able to deduct the full cost of interest payments against their rental income and also the corporation tax rate is lower than income tax rate.
HeadIsFucked · 03/01/2021 18:36

how did police enforce it in March? I think whatever was done then, is bound to bring the R-number down just a bit? Whereas doing nothing leaves us on the same trajectory to rising cases and chaos.

I don't think they did as such really. People policed themselves as most were scared. For one reason or another, the fear is no longer there for many.

I am not suggesting do nothing. Simply saying what seems to be the case. I hope to god I am wrong, really. But I really fear that making restrictions tighter might have the opposite effect than intended.

BlueBaubles12 · 03/01/2021 18:36

@SpnBaby1967

Does anybody actually care what that snake of a man thinks? All he cares about is popularity polls.
Unlike Boris who’s in it for the people, obvs.
Eaumyword · 03/01/2021 18:37

@Sockbogies

Close the airports to holiday makers! One of my colleagues just returned from the Caribbean last Thursday. Seems crazy they can do that but I can't meet up with my friend and her kids to allow my daughter to have social interaction in a park outside. Nuts that we're making sacrifices but others can go off for a jolly abroad.
I do agree. I work in a school and know that quite a few families have just returned from long haul holidays (we're Tier 4.) I suppose they can do it but personally feel it is a selfish act right now. Even selecting places with 'travel corridors' so they don't need to isolate before returning to school doesn't mitigate that risk. Travel corridors is the same silly smoke and mirrors phrase use as bubbles and covid secure.
Thefeep · 03/01/2021 18:39

It’ll never be lockdown like the first one. People are fed up now. Been to tale my son back to school today and the traffic was bad, I live in Tier 4.

Kazzyhoward · 03/01/2021 18:40

@ivykaty44

more small businesses were registered in 2020 than in 2019 just because we shut down or lock down doesn't mean a worse time afterwards, in fact a decisive government with a plan would shut down now in the quieter months ready to open back up when safe with confidence
Huge numbers of limited companies were formed last Spring to fraudulently claim the bounce back loans.
Kazzyhoward · 03/01/2021 18:44

[quote Redcherries]@Kazzyhoward completely agree with you regarding the impossibility of shielding the vulnerable completely, I’m cev, 3 other house members currently working or at school, 2 working in the very same place I would be. I think people see us vulnerable secured in a room alone, sterile food delivered. Many I know are mums, dads, children (although many cev children were removed from the list and now attending school). It’s not realistic at all, not to mention those with no support relying on volunteers to help. Don’t get me wrong, I’m bloody scared, but it’s just not possible. In fact many shielded living in tier 3 are expected to work, I keep hearing people say it’s better to be alive than pay the mortgage, but that’s the choice many face and people need to walk in their shoes.

However, there’s loads of uni staff working, some spend their days in the accommodation units, some catering, reception staff, building maintenance. It’s like a mini city with a whole underground work force 24 hours a day. The lecturers actually make a tiny portion of the team making it all work.[/quote]
Re the Unis, of course there are staff, but it's a very small skeleton staff, hence the empty car parks. Over half the catering outlets are closed, some of the college bars are closed. At first, they even had a skeleton staff for security meaning they didn't enforce the social distancing in the few bars that were open and didn't do anything about illegal parties in the student flats.

Silvergreen · 03/01/2021 18:58

@Bluntness100

I think a Christmas lag would have been seen by now. Everyone is back at work.

In addition, as much as they are low on weekends, we can do weekend to weekend comparisons. And on the spring peak they were much much higher than this. For less cases.

Check the death rate on Tuesday.
ListeningQuietly · 03/01/2021 19:10

Check the death rate on Tuesday
the base rate UK death rate per day is 1700
COVID is awful
but perspective is essential

Redcherries · 03/01/2021 20:02

@Kazzyhoward it’s not tiny, that’s my point, once students return it’s a whole army of staff, behind the scenes. They take a rota for being in the office or on site if they can’t work at home all the time. The returning students need to be fed, their rooms are cleaned including shared areas like kitchens, shower rooms etc, the corridors, halls, dining rooms. There’s a reception in every college, someone taking deliveries in, security, support staff, maintenance staff, building teams, estates department in charge of building teams, the shops need to stay open, the medical centre is open. Even if lecturers are virtual there’s a whole team running the place. Many travelling on public transport, or parked in less known car parks. So yes, you can discount lecturers, bar staff (often students) and catering in some areas, but the rest of campus will be operating an on site presence either daily, reduced or on rota, they’re still working.

Guylan · 04/01/2021 19:39

And 'what's more, if the two lockdowns we have had have shown us anything, it's that lockdowns don't work!!!'

First 3 month lockdown got numbers right down by end of June. Failure was govt handing lucrative contracts to private companies with little experience who then did not implement an effective test, trace, isolate system to take over and keep numbers low until vaccines developed. The TTT system still not fit for purpose apparently.

Until community transmission low and stays low with a functioning TTT system and then sufficient vaccination numbers the economy will not begin to recover.

Char2015 · 04/01/2021 19:46

Stay at home, protect the NHS, vaccinate Britain
Best slogan yet.

ivykaty44 · 04/01/2021 22:01

If lockdowns don't work then why do the infection rates go down at the end of the lockdowns?

ivykaty44 · 04/01/2021 22:03

@Kazzyhoward

ohh can you link to this please? thanks

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