Scaremongering threads about children - RCPCH have responded to worrying Twitter claims

[NaughtipussMaximus]

The RCPCH have responded to reassure parents and refute the claims on twitter and elsewhere about increased numbers of children with serious covid19 in ICUs. Please, if you’re worried about your children, read this and feel better. And if you’re one of the ones perpetuating unsubstantiated reports to further an agenda, please get in the sea.

www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/rcpch-responds-media-reports-increased-admissions-children-young-people-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0To78ci_Ra9CXHCAV3pM91MO31zfcpmMlcfxi9-ozdtwPu9n9xE54dPc4

@Elephant4

None of the doctors have given evidence. Why does a nurse have to? I sense snobbery.

Not snobbery at all. She has made claims that no one else has. I would expect anyone (nurse, doctor, cleaner, whoever) making claims that there were suddenly wards full of children with COVID to back it up with some proof.

The claims by doctors of full (adult) ICUs and pressure on the hospitals are easily verifiable.

Yes sometimes. Media are not always nice and can twist your words etc. Most hospitals have a dedicated team that deal with the media for exactly this reason. To protect staff more than anything else. If you go off piste (like this nurse has done) it can backfire (like it has in this case)
Journalists and media can be awful. I think we’re all aware of that aren’t we? There’s been plenty of examples over the years.

I just checked my emails on case we’d had a surge. We haven’t. I think the comments have not been given in context.
I think very likely she means covid + on screening rather than requiring treatment for. The children will have been admitted for a multitude of reasons.

@sashagabadon

Yes sometimes. Media are not always nice and can twist your words etc. Most hospitals have a dedicated team that deal with the media for exactly this reason. To protect staff more than anything else. If you go off piste (like this nurse has done) it can backfire (like it has in this case) Journalists and media can be awful. I think we’re all aware of that aren’t we? There’s been plenty of examples over the years.

However in this case, she gave an interview and so the words we heard were hers!

Presumably she meant that the children in the wards almost all had covid, but that wasn't the reason they were there. She almost certainly deliberatly didn't make that clear or put out another tweet clarifying.

Thanks

Its difficult for the general public. If I hadn't been able to ask on here I'd probably have given more weight (although still been sceptical) to a named nurse, presumably fact checked by the press than an unknown organisation going only by acronyms (after superficial attempts I'd have been distracted by life before getting to the bottom of who they were).

Do we all need media training now before speaking to the press?????

On the basis of long experience I wouldn't say "training" exactly, but it can be wise to get clued up on their methods before speaking out

It's not as if there's any lack of info about the issue ...

@MrsMiaWallis

Presumably she meant that the children in the wards almost all had covid, but that wasn't the reason they were there. She almost certainly deliberatly didn't make that clear or put out another tweet clarifying.

She may well have meant that, but as you say she should have been clear and then clarified. It’s not like she was stopped on the street by a roving reporter - she actively chose to give an interview(s) to a national radio station and newspaper.

As someone said on one of the deleted threads: there is a world of difference in a child being admitted to hospital WITH Covid and one admitted FOR Covid.

Sorry if I’ve missed something but what’s given us reason not to believe her? I understand we wouldn’t want to but that’s different.

I say this as a nurse, what on earth was she thinking?! The NMC and trusts have very clear social media policies and expectations. Once you put something out there it’s out there-whatever that medium-a radio interview/tweet/article. Even if what she wrote/said has been taken out of context or she thought she was doing the public favour or whatever ludicrous idea she had it was unprofessional and against policy. Trusts have comms teams and legal departments so you don’t get in this kind of mess but they can’t defend this sort or behaviour.

@Ladydowntheroad

Sorry if I’ve missed something but what’s given us reason not to believe her? I understand we wouldn’t want to but that’s different.

That's the whole reason this thread was started. The OP posted links to the RCPCH in her first post...

@Ladydowntheroad

Sorry if I’ve missed something but what’s given us reason not to believe her? I understand we wouldn’t want to but that’s different.

I think youve missed the point of the thread

This is welcome clarification. The nurse wasn’t lying but there wasn’t sufficient context to her comments in the BBC interview.

I would be really surprised if the NHS organisation hasn't asked Ms Duffell by the point to stop commenting, so I wouldn't necessarily expect updates.

No offence meant, pom pom, but we have no idea who you are or whether your NHS emails really exist or not.

There was a helpful comment on the data thread on the numbers, given below.

From data thread on admissions in children:

You can work it out from the data download here -

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=England

which has an XML spreadsheet with number of cumulative admissions each day, so you can calculate day on day changes. Its a bit of a raw measure as it doesn't differentiate between new admissions/diagnoses in hospital (The NSH Digital data does, but is only available to Dec 2). But....

Doing that shows that the 7 day running average for admissions for ages 6-17 is up from 8 per day on Nov 1 to 15 as of Dec 29 (88% increase); that for ages 18-64 is up from 400 to 880 (120% increase).

During that time the 7 day average of all cases increased 100%, (and I think it would be correct to say the increase in children was higher).

Soooooo....no, there is no evidence at the moment that a higher proportion of children are being admitted, I don't think. A higher number are, because more are infected, but not a higher proportion.

As others have said this strain has been around a while now, I think we'd have heard if kids were dropping down dead with it.

When those threads started on here some posters were absolutely terrified and there were other posters whipping them up into a frenzy (I notice there's still a couple on here). Well stand down, it is not true. Thanks for this thread OP.

That nurse exaggerated and scaremongered on purpose and she should be bloody well sacked.

@Ladydowntheroad

The nurse was talking about her own ward; there's no reason to believe that her ward isn't busy or doesn't have covid positive cases.

On the other hand, there isn't clear evidence that this can be extrapolated nationwide.

Some paeds doctors have said that their hospitals aren't busy in the same way, which is good news.

A Prof Viner has also weighed in; while very eminent, he has previously given misleading advice about covid spread in children.

So personally I'm not panicking but I'm awaiting further information on this one.

Absolutely I could be anyone. But I think you’ll find my posts are measured, when I first saw the post on another thread - I said it didn’t sound correct rather than dismiss it, I then fact checked while at work. My points were subsequently then reiterated by the 4 miss paed depts in London.
Regarding if I’m lying- well I’ve given really clear explanations about paeds nurses helping in adult ICU for example. It would a bit of a random claim.
I’m glad people are being reassured.
Nothing to add really. But if children were very or more vulnerable, I definitely wouldn’t be dismissing this evidence.

*4 main paed depts.

I'm not saying you're lying, it's the internet, we all have to reserve judgement

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Do we all need media training now before speaking to the press?????

On the basis of long experience I wouldn't say "training" exactly, but it can be wise to get clued up on their methods before speaking out

It's not as if there's any lack of info about the issue ...

It is not the Matrons fault although perhaps she could have thought more carefully about the effect of what she was saying. The fault lies completely with the BBC for how they chose to cover a story that would obviously cause anxiety with this sole unchallenged opinion.

What is the agenda though, is it to scare people enough so they won’t want to leave the house at all? As soon as children’s health is a risk that changes this pandemic to whole new level. It’s like certain people on here can’t wait until there is proof it effects children, they jump on here straight away with any story that they think backs up this claim without having the full facts. Look at the 8 year old girl that died with Covid, hardly any news of what she actually died of.

In this position the matron should have said nothing without following policy so she is at fault in some respects. The media should have been directed to the comms department of the hospital, that is the policy. The media will take things out of context that is unfortunately a fact, the trained professionals in the comms dept would then construct a response or guide the matrons response when she had sought advice. If things were then taken out of context the matron would be protected because she had followed policy. Abiding by trust policy and the NMC code is not optional in the profession. There is a reason the NHS has comms and legal departments because situations, the press and social media need managed.

I kept primary school aged DC home in March despite having a chance to send them in because I was worried. I then sent them in from September till December and felt fully confident it was safe.
I had no idea cases were 500 per 100,000 in my area on the last day of school term despite looking at the stats every day because it took a while for the data to come through and it was back-dated. I understand that the increases were massive and sudden so it was a moving target and there can be a data lag.
But I had no idea there was a mutant strain that was much more easily transmitted amongst children at all.
It makes me think what else did I have no idea about which is why I think articles like the Telegraph one on Laura Duffell really scare some parents...I do think now though that it seems her account is an isolated one, and that if kids were dropping down dead we would know by now.
Cases in my area are now 850 per 100,000 so luckily primary schools are closed for us...I’m not so worried now about the strain severely affecting kids but it’s still a numbers game right?

I was feeling very anxious after reading her comments- I know it’s irrational and I should’ve interrogated data blah blah blah, but it turns out I’m not capable of thinking totally logically when it comes to keeping DC safe.

There’s no evidence so far that this new strain AFFECTS children more than the original strain. There is evidence that is more transmissible among age groups. As the strain has been around in the south east at least since September or early October, I’d expect by January there to be evidence of children being more badly affected, if that were the case. Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence, of course, but it does imply such.

FWIW, I work in medical research alongside paediatricians and neonatologists, and they have, throughout the pandemic, been very reassuring about its effects on children. Full disclosure, I’m not a medical doctor so I’m only going off what they have said.