AIBU to stand up for children and parents...

[alwaysraining123]

... and say that closing schools is not an option. Some observations.

(1) millions of children will suffer poorer mental health, educational deficits and be at risk of physical harm.
(2) if schools close now the government will struggle to get them back open.
(3) the unions are playing a highly political game preying shamelessly on people’s fears.
(4) online learning is of no use for most of the primary school years. Parents basically need to be available all day to support children.
(5) more parents are going to find themselves unable to work causing more financial hardship. This won’t affect your middle class sahps or people who can work from home as much- there are people who actually have to go out of their house to earn a living.
(6) if you’re parent and you’re worried you can keep your child at home.
(7) educational transmission of the virus is low and infection control standards can be escalated where needed.

Whatever is done we need to place maintaining educational provision for children at the heart of it. We need to make it work...there’s no other option.

There were lots of problems in the last lockdown- digitally poor children suffered, children with poor mental health suffered, parents with poor mental health suffered, families on a low income suffered, families suffered for other reasons. When the schools returned full time after the summer, it was a great relief. I really don't want schools to close. I can't face another lockdown. Before Christmas, I thought it would be ridiculous to close schools. However, things have changed rapidly with the new variant. Unfortunately, the only way to make schools safe is to vaccinate teachers and older pupils.

This is so difficult and I believe what is right for one child/family/tier won’t be right for another. My child’s mental health suffered a lot during the first lockdown, simply from missing children her own age. I believe that schools in tier 4 should not be open, that parents should be able to chose to keep their children at home with no threat of fines should they wish and that teachers should be in amongst the first tranch of vaccinations together with health workers and over 80’s.

Teachers have totally dominated the discussion on this. It’s widely known that so many teachers on mumsnet seem to really dislike their jobs and really ideally wouldn’t be teachers, so would probably love schools to shut.

Bloody hell, some of you are beyond ridiculous. You do know that teachers just do as they’re told? If my headteacher tells me to go to work on Monday, I will. If he tells me the school is closed and not to come in but to teach from home, I will. It isn’t our choice or decision. We have to do as told. How is it ‘widely known’ that most teachers hate their jobs? I love mine, I’m going to be really pissed off if we have to miss the kids for weeks. Thinking of 2 cousins, also teachers, they also bloody love their jobs and are not thrilled to be staying home from Monday, it’s really difficult to teach certain stuff from home. Stop generalising!

Totally agree with you OP. Completely agree.

YADDDNBU it’s sad we have reached this point. I think what we should now do is be allies of teachers in pushing for safer schools while firmly opposed to closures.

@Loustew12

YANBU. I agree 100%. I am still worried about covid but I've also researched the new strain (not more dangerous to either adults or children) and even if it is more transmissible, most working age adults are still highly likely to survive it. So, on balance, schools should remain open.

Phew - am so glad that someone has researched it. Please could you publish your paper detailing the research and findings. This could then hopefully help people realise that everything is absolutely fine 🤦🏻‍♀️

I also think teachers deserve a massive pay rise as they have worked their butts off during the pandemic, more than they normally do

YABU and in fact you are incorrect, shutting schools is an option under Section 44 of the Safety at Work Act.

However YWNBU to say that if schools can open safely this would mean that closing them should not be an option. In the interests of full disclosure I am a teacher, I want schools open, but safely, I want my students and indeed my own son to get the education to which they are entitled. Many schools are not safe at the moment, but they could be if testing and vaccinations are organised efficiently and expediently.

I also agree that schools being closed disproportionately affects more vulnerable groups such as women, part time workers, workers with disabilities and those on low incomes. However that is a matter for government to mitigate, nor schools. Employers need to be protect their employees who need to temporarily WFM in a way that actively discourages discrimination.

It’s a shame voting isn’t enabled as a show of overwhelming support for the op might have been noted by certain media outlets and authorities

6. isn't true. They are dining parents who don't send kids in.

OP have you been campaigning on behalf of the people in school for better measures when they opened to reduce the spread and keep schools open longer knowing this was coming? If not, why not?

Teachers know what is going on in schools. The media can be very misleading when discussing education and of course Boris keeps saying schools are safe when it is blatantly clear that they are not COVID safe.

7. needs investment from central government and is something that everyone apart from Boris "Schools Are Safe" Johnson would agree with.

Can I stick up for teachers, especially primary who have been advised to not wear masks, and say...

(1) Many children's mental health improves when not in school, as my son's did during lockdown 1
(2) Schools never closed in lockdown 1, essential worker's kids and vulnerable children were always in AND schools didn't struggle to open at all last time so why would they this time?
(3) The Unions are literally doing their job - standing up for the rights of teachers
(4) Millions of kids are homeschooled full time. Yes it's an adjustment but yes it's manageable and schools won't be expecting great things and seeing as we're only talking about 2 weeks missed (until the 18th) I very much doubt this is enough time to derail any child's education (Primary spend the whole of December fannying about pre Xmas, FFS)
(5) Most parents are in tier 4 so most parents will be working from home anyway. If you actually have to go to work then in all likelihood you will be classed as an essential worker and your kids can go to school
(6)If you're a parent and you're worried you are not allowed to keep youyr child at home as the DofE have told Heads to fine per missed day.
(7)Educational transmission of the virus is NOT low and teachers are dying every day. THEY ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE CHILDREN.

Whether you like it or not we are in the midst of a global pandemic AND NEITHER EDUCATION OR THE INCONVENIENCE CAUSED TO PARENTS BY HAVING THEIR KIDS AT HOME FOR 2 WEEKS IS WORTH ANYONE DYING FOR!!!!!

1. Infection is low and can be escalated.

Wrong, I'm a teaching assistant, our school had 5 cases from September, all cases isolated,no problem.
The last week before Christmas, boom we had 20 staff and 70 children infected.
It is not safe.

Have you taken a vote amongst all children and parents?

I’m a parent and I vote YABU.

I am also a teacher so if you want me to take my kid out of school if I’m unhappy then I won’t be teaching either.

Also, it doesn’t just affect teachers and pupils. Have you asked everyone in all school communities- aunties, uncles, grandparents, TAs, site staff, office staff, canteen staff what they think?

What about the opinions of those whose jobs are on the line because of increased tier 4 restrictions? You do know that opening schools drives up the rate of infection and means extended restrictions for those sectors.

In summary, your need for your child’s school to be open (for whatever reason) is not more important than the lives and livelihoods of everyone else in your local community.

And all your points are completely and utterly wrong, wrong, wrong.

seeing as we're only talking about 2 weeks missed (until the 18th)

I agree with your post but it will definitely be longer than this.

The children of keyworkers who have to go in just by the nature of their parents' jobs, will also be bundled into mixed age groups and not even receive online learning like last time. I don't have a primary age child so I have no skin in this game, but I know how worried my colleagues are about their children they're not even eligible for furlough if they wanted to. Secondary is slightly different although not ideal.

Much as it's terrible for my children to be cooped up at home, I think it's the right thing to do at this time

The numbers for primary schools really do not back up the idea of keeping them closed and homeschooling country wide so I agree with you about keeping them open. You can count the number of cases my son's school has had on one hand (we are in a big town in the Midlands that got moved into tier 4 in the most recent changes although the next nearest big town, which is 15 miles away, has more than twice the number of cases per 100,000, just to give some context). None of the cases transmitted within school, all the kids got it from an adult in their household and the one staff member, a TA (who is also a friend of mine), got it from either her parents or sister and brother in law.

However, I would say that secondary schools aren't so clear cut. Our primary is right next door to a secondary and you only have to see how the students behave and in big groups when they leave school at the end of the day to know how easily it could spread between them. The primary kids seem to understand what they're supposed to do much better!

I find it hard OP as I completely understand teachers points of view and want to support them because it must be so scary at the moment. But just stopping children going to school seems so unfair on the children a lot of which will suffer. I don’t know what the solution is. I feel the children will be paying the price of covid (obviously other than the people who have very sadly died before anyone jumps in).

I also wonder when they'll shut prisons to protect the staff there and their families? I'd also mention the inmates but realise this is irrelevant to most especially on here.

@Biscuitsareessential

It’s a shame voting isn’t enabled as a show of overwhelming support for the op might have been noted by certain media outlets and authorities

Not sure why you think there would be a show of overwhelming support when the majority of actual posts here are disagreeing with the OP (and add me to that number)?

Seems that, just like the OP, the inconvenient fact that reality won't conform to your wishful thinking is not stopping you from believing what you want anyway.

Teachers may be in the frontline here, but it's everyone else who later stand to lose when schools continue to spread COVID to families and then the wider community, the hospitals continue to struggle and then anyone who needs emergency or even normal care will suffer.

Vaccinating teachers may help them - it won't help anyone else though.

Similarly OP saying parents can keep kids at home is just either outright trolling or outright stupidity - I would love to have the choice but the government have shown they will fine parents for doing so.

I agree, there are so many benefits to schools being open. The comments suggesting teachers shouldn’t have to risk their lives are fair but I am sure the people saying it are happy to accept deliveries from drivers, use the NHS, allow people to work in crowded essential shops, have the police breaking up gatherings, have plumbers fixing their boiler... anyone who works is at risk. Education and schools are so important to children and their parents. Let’s weigh up the risk properly

Schools are hotbeds for this virus. I know of schools in our area where the virus has been rampant for weeks, yet for some reason there seems to have been a news blackout on this. What’s the point of not allowing your DCs to see granny, or young friends socially, but they can spend 6 hours a day with maskless children in school, and maskless teachers? It’s crap for parents I know, but schools need to shut, along with everything else, for at least 2 weeks to let us get on top of this. Can’t we just get on with it and stop whinging??