AIBU to stand up for children and parents...

[alwaysraining123]

... and say that closing schools is not an option. Some observations.

(1) millions of children will suffer poorer mental health, educational deficits and be at risk of physical harm.
(2) if schools close now the government will struggle to get them back open.
(3) the unions are playing a highly political game preying shamelessly on people’s fears.
(4) online learning is of no use for most of the primary school years. Parents basically need to be available all day to support children.
(5) more parents are going to find themselves unable to work causing more financial hardship. This won’t affect your middle class sahps or people who can work from home as much- there are people who actually have to go out of their house to earn a living.
(6) if you’re parent and you’re worried you can keep your child at home.
(7) educational transmission of the virus is low and infection control standards can be escalated where needed.

Whatever is done we need to place maintaining educational provision for children at the heart of it. We need to make it work...there’s no other option.

I think teachers should be very much prioritized for the vaccine. I don’t believe online lessons work for primary aged children and I have a lot of experience in e-learning.
Me and my dh are in an ideal position to be able to work from home, I have hours where I can teach them myself, they absolutely miss the social element of school but for me I have come to realize there are quite a lot of downsides to formal education (very little physical activity which my kids thrive on) , we have a gorg house with loads of tech available, I bought great resources the last time etc etc. We are lucky.
BUT there are so many families where this is not the case and many of my friends found it absolutely impossible to work and educate their kids at the same time so they should NOT be expected to this , it’s ludicrous and has put families at breaking point.
I actually heard more than 3 different teachers comment on how parents didn’t cover enough during the last lockdown and need to pull their socks up with the next, how behind the kids were when they returned etc.
We pay tax so our children can go to school. I’m in Ireland and there’s no schools open for vulnerable students or key workers at all!!! Mu friend is an ICU nurse and can’t work obvs while all her kids are at home so another staff member the hospital desperately need.
While I do not blame the teachers as they have no control over this there was absolutely nothing bar a couple of online programs for dcs to complete in the last lockdown, 6 full months yet parents were conscious that their kids needed to cover certain material.
Parents can’t be expected to teach and work at the same time. Primary school dcs need supervision all day. I don’t know what the answer is but it’s totally disingenuous to suggest online schooling is the answer , it simply isn’t and isn’t workable for so many.

YANBU. I agree 100%. I am still worried about covid but I've also researched the new strain (not more dangerous to either adults or children) and even if it is more transmissible, most working age adults are still highly likely to survive it. So, on balance, schools should remain open.

Only the parents who have the luxury of not having to work in demanding jobs

I do work in a demanding job and so does my husband, and we live in a small flat with no outdoor space. We still believe schools should be closed. That is because we believe the alternative would be worse for both us and our son.

If schools could function safely amid soaring infection rates they could open. As they can't, they need to close. Not sure where the complexity is here.

@ineedaholidaynow

Parents with Primary school children, if schools close and you can't keep up with the work provided keep reading with them, but also try and do some maths, spelling and writing practice. The last 3 skills really dropped in our local Primaries during the summer term. There are many fun resources out there that can help so hopefully it doesn't have to feel a chore but more of a game

It is a chore. I’m a single parent with sole custody who works full time from home. No matter how I dress it up to my Primary 4 child, she does not enjoy or embrace learning with me, but does fantastic in school. Me trying to support her to learn in between meetings and deadlines or after work at the end of the day did not work in the first lockdown, and it won’t work in this. I kept her reading up, I tried my best, my best wasn’t good enough frankly.

Not related to this comment ... If they have to close then they have too. But let’s not pretend online learning is happening, and also that it can work for most families who are juggling work and technology to try and make it happen. We have to be realistic that poorer, already disadvantaged children will continue to be, and the gap will widen. And let’s demand better from our government over the coming five ten years to make up for this, because it will need sustained commitment from them to support those children most affected.

YABU 100%

What happens when the pupils pass it on to all the staff, do you expect schools to still be open?

Completely agree that schools need to stay open. That imho should be absolutely priority.

Of course any vulnerable or terrified teachers should be allowed to stay off. Any terrified or vulnerable parents should be allowed to keep their children at home.

The government back in early summer should have launched a scheme for interested students/young adults or PGCE candidates to get police checked and be recruited to cover for vulnerable teachers. Trained up over summer holidays.

Whilst expensive and less optimal than experienced teachers of course, it would have helped avoid unnecessary closures, maintained critical routines for children and allowed ongoing supported and controlled social contact. And more certainty. This would also have supported the young people recruited, and supported working parents.

I do agree the unions are being political and I disagree with their action. I think the government should be more proactive in publicising the actual risks at an individual level to minimise the mass hysteria (eg risk by age group).

This may alleviate many people’s fears and reduce the panic that gives rise to calls for school closures. Remember that lockdown is about protecting the NHS (rightly so). I wonder if the government avoids being honest about the low risk on an individual level to ensure fear levels stay high to achieve compliance with lockdown restrictions.

I do agree with closures in very high tier four areas but they should be very time bound or the impacts on many children are going to be irreversible.

Thank you for everyone’s comments. I’ve enjoyed reading them even the ones I disagree with.

I’m not sure the title was quite right on reflection - I don’t intend to speak for all children and parents. I’m satisfied that at least some people agree though.

I’m sorry for the teachers who have died. Sadly many people have died - postal workers, bus drivers, nurses, doctors, supermarket workers - it’s because of these people essential services can still operate.

I consider education to be essential too hence my last remark of needing to make it work. If that means teachers go to work in full PPE then they should (doctors and nurses do 12-13 hours straight in heavy PPE).

A lot of the come back on my points are a regurgitation of the populist nonsense being spouted currently.

I work in a school and love my job but I'm too frightened to go into work with cases so high and not much known about the new strain. Vaccinate teachers and school staff ASAP and heighten infection control and we'll be back in.

I’m a teacher and a mum and I agree with you OP.

The govt should just crack down on those who refuse to comply - there need to be serious penalties as there have been in every single country that has controlled this virus. I am sick of seeing people swanning around every day without masks/socialising etc. Those who are vulnerable can keep their kids at home, those who are not can send their kids to school. Outside of that everyone just complies with tier 4. The problem was that the crack down in March was too late and not extreme enough.

@loustew12
Risking their longing term health in an environment where proper social distancing is impossible isn't what teachers signed up for. Sorry.

Oh and yes priority vaccination for teachers who want it!

And agree that teachers should be vaccinated as a matter of priority

Adults in the UK have a legal right to stay away from work if their working environment is unsafe. Teachers are about to exercise that right. The government will need to respond by either producing evidence to show that schools are safe for teachers, or by setting in place an effective plan to make schools safe.

You clearly believe that the government will easily be able to show that schools are safe, so I’m not sure what you’re worried about.

Yabu.

Children have a right to education but these are exceptional times. It won't be forever now that we have a vaccine. We have to act in the interests of society as a whole, not just children/parents of school age children.

Many people in other sectors have been unable to work for months on end due to the virus so it isn't something unique to closing schools. There also isn't much else the Government can shut to reduce transmission. If we leave them open it will get to the point where teachers won't be able to provide provision for vulnerable students and key workers due to high levels of sickness and isolation.

I'm with you Op.
Teacher here. Happy for my school and my kids' schools to stay open.

@JellyBabiesSaveLives

Adults in the UK have a legal right to stay away from work if their working environment is unsafe. Teachers are about to exercise that right. The government will need to respond by either producing evidence to show that schools are safe for teachers, or by setting in place an effective plan to make schools safe.

You clearly believe that the government will easily be able to show that schools are safe, so I’m not sure what you’re worried about.

And how will you feel if Supermarket workers don't go into worse as it's 'unsafe'

Or ICU nurses?

Or the police?

When exactly is safe enough? When the pandemic ends? September? 2022? 2025?

ANOTHER thread about coronavirus and schools. YAY.

Just because you want to keep school to be open, it's not going to happen unless there is some kind of safety measures in place.

I am a parent, so I want school to be open, but not like this.
We had a chance, when we had lockdown while school was open, if we all stuck to the rules and the spread was contained among the household and not spread to the community, it could have gone slightly more under control.

But as the poll the other day suggested, majority of people were happy to break the rules, so there's no wonder spread is out of control now and school need closing.

@Aab1234

And agree that teachers should be vaccinated as a matter of priority

My ds goes to a sen school and we have had a message from the head to say apparently the staff are now in the same category as with care worker staff for the vaccine and some have had the vaccine today. That's with our local authority so will be different where you live . I think this is really good news and this is the only way that schools can open safely with staff starting to be vaccinated. My ds really needs to be in school he's in small groups so the risk is lower but I understand if they need to close . I completely get that mainstream schools it's impossible to be social distancing and there absolutely needs to be something done so the staff and children are safe . I can't believe here we are 9 months later no further forward with making it safer .

Yep - let’s throw school staff under the bus !!!!

This is about health and safety
Lives
Of course schools in tier 4 areas should be closed

Not enough people are complying with rules
New variant is raging
Things are getting worse
Vaccine programme will take time
Dumbos will sabotage vaccine programme as they have sabotaged infection control measures.
This government operates for popularity not science.

Close the bloody schools - the inconvenience won’t kill, covid does.

I consider education to be essential too hence my last remark of needing to make it work. If that means teachers go to work in full PPE then they should (doctors and nurses do 12-13 hours straight in heavy PPE).

Apples and oranges. But one thing I would say is that if the government and country would like teachers to step up as "selfless heroes" and put their life on the line in environment with widespread virus and impossible social distancing, perhaps government and country should teach the profession with a bit more respect, as opposed to a profession which sees half the workforce quitting five years after becoming certified.