how would you have handled covid if you were pm ?

[warmandtoasty2day]

so many boris slaggers on here and arm chair scientists, but i'm curious to know how would you have done from the start in dealing with this?
i'm an ordinary person in the street, good education, up to now, life time of common sense and have had a large family but i wouldn't begin to know where to begin on this one .

Mandatory mask wearing for those who cannot wfh plus on public transport from the start. No exemptions. If you can't wear a mask then you must shield. Everyone shielding to have priority for on-line shopping. No free boxes of food for those shielding. Just why?

Because not all people can access online shopping, or have friends or family deliver. My grandparents had never used a computer as far as I know before they died fairly recently. They'd starve if not allowed out of the house and if none of us would deliver them food. Also a lot of people shielding are vulnerable in other ways and budgeting may be hard for them if they have to spend £40 minimum for delivery rather than the £10 they would spend in store.

@Grandtheft

Some brilliant points on here, oh for a time machine

This is the thing though, for most of this we didn't need a time machine. We were in a mess already and we could see what was happening in other countries and didn't act.

Now that there's a vaccine I would have prioritised front line NHS, teachers and the police for the first vaccines....then you can start with the most vulnerable.

@Grandtheft

Some brilliant points on here, oh for a time machine

Or a PM who had the courage of their (and their scientific advisors’) convictions, and was prepared to make the tough decisions back when those decisions had a fighting chance of making a difference.

Boris didn’t want to be unpopular so he dilly-dallied, and ended up having to instigate the tough measures anyway.

But they’ve far less chance of being effective now, many lives have been lost, HCPs and services are overwhelmed, and everyone (well, most sane people) thoroughly dislike him, anyway.

I know people love to hate on Jacinda, but her early communications outlined this very clearly. That these steps and measures were tough, no denying it, and they would take a toll on our lives and freedoms as we knew them. But that such steps would be necessary at some point, and would be much more effective if taken early.

It made logical sense, it kept people reassured that our best interests were being considered, and it created trust.

Shut the borders except for essentials like freight without drivers travelling with their loads. People entering to be quarantined properly in airport/port hotels with their movements robustly checked to ensure that they didn't disappear - no exemptions however "important" the person may think they were. If we'd done it soon enough, we could have been like NZ.

@LNSL

Now that there's a vaccine I would have prioritised front line NHS, teachers and the police for the first vaccines....then you can start with the most vulnerable.

They're not the ones dying nor clogging up the hospital beds.

@EnjoyingTheSilence

But I don’t just think it’s easy to say with hindsight. At the time decisions were being made it was obviously ridiculous.

Ignoring experts re pandemics
Not listening to advice given after an exercise re a pandemic
Lockdown not happening soon enough
Saying we have a world beating track and trace when we didn’t even have a functioning one
Giving contracts to your mates instead of people with experience
Eat out to help out scheme
Furlough scheme ending in October
5 days relaxation of rules over Christmas
DoE threatening to take Greenwich council to court about school closures
Dithering about school closures now
Fucking about with the vaccine

It’s not with hindsight that these appear madness, they were stupid at the time

I agree they were entirely foreseeable. You really don't need the benefit of hindsight to see the stupidity of them.

I remember seeing people returmed from China bused to the Wirral with a full hazmat suit guard and the poor driver with noPPE

That was when I knew we were fucked. It was just so breathtakingly mental - like that shocking Ebola clipboard guy (anyone remember Ebola clipboard guy?), but much more transmissable, airborne and and inside a closed bus. Oh it's fiiiiine, we're quarantining them all. Oh, no, not the drivers, they don't need to quarantine. Yeah, them and the buses are going back on general duties tomorrow. They're what, you say?! 😂🤯 What could go wrong eh. 🤔

Stopped the borders, incoming flights straight away like other countries.

If masks were mandatory and a necessity to keep safe to start with, they should have made them so rather than declare it 4 month in.

At this stage with a vaccine near, I would make the Tier systems by risk factor.
For example, pubs, restaurants could be tier 4. So anyone over the age of 60 and any underlying conditions can not go in. Anyone who does, cannot see relatives with underlying health conditions and over 60 etc.
For everyone in one area to all be under Tiers 3 and 4 when it has just such a minuscule chance in causing any serious illness or death to anyone under 65 and no health conditions is just not viable and downright stupid.

Quarantine for arrivals - China, HK, Australia, Thailand have all done this, two weeks and paid for by the individual, not the govt.
Not allow events such at Cheltenham racing and crufts to go ahead when it was clear what was going to happen
Curfew
No travel between tiers (with some exceptions)

@DuchessofHastings1

Stopped the borders, incoming flights straight away like other countries.

If masks were mandatory and a necessity to keep safe to start with, they should have made them so rather than declare it 4 month in.

At this stage with a vaccine near, I would make the Tier systems by risk factor.
For example, pubs, restaurants could be tier 4. So anyone over the age of 60 and any underlying conditions can not go in. Anyone who does, cannot see relatives with underlying health conditions and over 60 etc.
For everyone in one area to all be under Tiers 3 and 4 when it has just such a minuscule chance in causing any serious illness or death to anyone under 65 and no health conditions is just not viable and downright stupid.

Your tiers idea is good but impractical as it would prevent nurses, doctors, tradesmen etc from going into pubs as they will come into contact with vulnerable/over 60s as part of their job. There's no way they'd follow that rule. So they'd go into pubs/restaurants anyway and simply lie to their bosses, patients, clients etc.

@PicsInRed

I remember seeing people returmed from China bused to the Wirral with a full hazmat suit guard and the poor driver with noPPE

That was when I knew we were fucked. It was just so breathtakingly mental - like that shocking Ebola clipboard guy (anyone remember Ebola clipboard guy?), but much more transmissable, airborne and and inside a closed bus. Oh it's fiiiiine, we're quarantining them all. Oh, no, not the drivers, they don't need to quarantine. Yeah, them and the buses are going back on general duties tomorrow. They're what, you say?! 😂🤯 What could go wrong eh. 🤔

I agree. It was the moment when it was blatantly obvious that the politicians, civil servants, local authorities etc hadn't a clue what they were doing. Especially as at the same moment we were watching the coach arrive at that Liverpool hospital, there were dozens of flights arriving from all over the World which would be carrying people who'd recently been in China but not flying directly from China to the UK, i.e. like the doctor who went from China to Italian ski resort and then back to the UK. Who'd have thought that people don't come directly from China to the UK (well most sane people actually, but obviously not the politicians, civil servants and other people in authority!).

blazinglightonthehill

PicsInRedit wasn't though was it? It wasn't until the end of February/beginning of March that this really became all anyone talked about.

Depends on your industry I guess. We're not medical, but "critical" in a different way and our plans were mobilised in Feb and, yes, it was absolutely the talk of the office throughout Feb.

This is from 23 January. Matt Hancock himself saying there was increased likelihood of covid in the UK but we were well prepared (😂). It was very well discussed by Feb.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51221915

@Fizbosshoes

Australia and New Zealand closed their borders on 19th March, the day WHO declared a pandemic. We would have still been in a far worse position as there were plenty of cases here by then...but I'm not convinced there would have been support for closing borders here in January (as a lot of PP have been suggesting) although it would have been wise to quarantine travellers from China from that time.

Australia stopped entry from China (excluding Australian citizens and people with permanent residency) on 1st Feb and those people who could enter the country has to self isolate at home for two weeks. They were way ahead of us. I returned from Asia on 12th Feb and there were no checks at Heathrow. When i entered Australia on 28th January all airport staff were wearing masks.

So...we're not in hindsight now...it's literally the present day. We can do anything, this is the now.

So WHY oh WHY are the flights still landing, why is the border still open?! Why isn't THIS being raised by Kier Starmer?

@PicsInRed

So...we're not in hindsight now...it's literally the present day. We can do anything, this is the now.

So WHY oh WHY are the flights still landing, why is the border still open?! Why isn't THIS being raised by Kier Starmer?

Why not quarantine arrivals? Hotels are empty so turn them into quarantine facilities just like HK, Australia, China, Thailand...

They're not the ones dying nor clogging up the hospital beds

But in fairness, NHS staff being sick now is making the situation 100% worse. No good having hospital beds if you have no functioning staff.

Why not quarantine arrivals? Hotels are empty so turn them into quarantine facilities just like HK, Australia, China, Thailand...

Yeah, probably. I'm not huge on prison style quarantine but it's certainly better than the great big load of nothing we're doing now.

Citizens and permanent residents only for repatriation, book quarantine slot before you leave - like NZ. No tourist flights during lockdown. Internal flights only after lockdown. You want Barbados? Settle for Blackpool.

If we're going to do all this again, we should at least do it properly this time, right?

I would have shut the borders apart from freight.

As great as your plan sounds @Indecisive12 if flights are closed how do you propose getting staff on and off said freight vessels. My dh works for a U.K. shipping company, they mostly all fly in from Ireland, Canada, Romania, Poland. Etc there's only a handful of staff on his ship that live in free U.K. sorry to be the bearer of bad news 😬

@Indecisive12

I would have shut the borders apart from freight. I also prior to the pandemic wouldn’t have had the NHS and police on their kneeS. I would have followed advice from the mock pandemic scenario a few years ago. The NHS would have coped better as we’d have had fewer cases and more staff, more efficient services. The police would have been able to enforce restrictions. I’d have introduced masks early on by ignoring WHO and following the countries who dealt with it effectively. Schools may have been on a rota but staff and pupils above a certain age would have worn masks. I’d have gained the respect of the people by not leaking things to the press

Absolutely all of this. And most importantly I would have been driven by science, not popular opinion

Oh and new measures would be effective immediately on announcement, to stop all the ' last night of freedom' partying that some idiots thought was appropriate

I'd have followed WHO guidance.

Like Sweden.

@LangClegsInSpace

I'd have followed WHO guidance.

We did, unfortunately.

That's why we didn't stop the flights or close the border. WHO advice.

Remember that laughable moment the fool head of WHO further delayed declaring a pandemic by claiming "we no longer use the word pandemic" ... shortly thereafter declaring it a pandemic? Honestly.

www.reuters.com/article/china-health-who/who-says-no-longer-uses-pandemic-category-but-virus-still-emergency-idINL5N2AO1BP

The WHO also demanded flights continue and borders remain open.

No surprise then that network news and world nations alike totally lost patience with that utter fool and declared the pandemic for themselves.

NZ the followed the advice of WHO medical staff and totally ignored the WHO politicians - an astute choice as it emerged.

- Anybody returning due to work reasons should have quarantine expenses (ie hotel) paid for by their company, personal travel it’s on you
Tens of Thousands of our citizens would have been stranded abroad.

- Every child of school age should have access to their own personal laptop (loaned or rented by the government and supplied by tech firms)
And broadband... Lack of reliable Wifi is more of a barrier than devices. Someone has to pay the ongoing broadband cost. Oh, and provide a quiet space for study, and supportive parents, and an atmosphere that supports learning, and no distracting siblings or domestic violence/neglect. Easy peasy (not).

- All contracts to be put through a fair and transparent sourcing process That takes time. Normally months & months & months. We didn't have that long to get some of these systems going.