how would you have handled covid if you were pm ?

[warmandtoasty2day]

so many boris slaggers on here and arm chair scientists, but i'm curious to know how would you have done from the start in dealing with this?
i'm an ordinary person in the street, good education, up to now, life time of common sense and have had a large family but i wouldn't begin to know where to begin on this one .

I would have closed the borders, aside from medical and consumable freight, as previously mentioned.
I would have closed schools and pubs and all the other services for 3 months. No one/nothing in or out so short-term disruption.
I would have kept to it. If you leave the borders you need a good reason (work/family/etc.) you need to follow strict protocol to return safely.

That's it. I voted Remain, so. Not including the obvious issues and needs that the Brexit debacle had brought with it.

If I fell into the role this minute, I guess I would start with delaying the school year and making it up at a monthly rate, easily offset with childcare and kids groups to enable work as soon as the required period for closed borders and wiping the slate. Then return all to school under the proviso that the borders stay closed, we are back to an island-wide normality after the last case does or recovers. Of course that is crazy talk now ... But better than the current state of affairs. They had time and warning so to he honest, any new leader or party would struggle at first.

Not saying I'm right, that's why ai went for a job in education and not government! Very interesting reading the answers, though. Boris isn't looking so smart compared to Mumsnet. THAT terrifies me!

"I also prior to the pandemic wouldn’t have had the NHS and police on their knees" but that means time travelling. If you had been handed control when Boris was that wouldn't have been an option. it would probably take a decade to build it up enough.

I would certainly have started the first lockdown a week earlier than we actually did. And given the speed with which the virus was spreading at that point, that would have saved a lot of lives. (Again, from my own Facebook posts at the time, I know that I am not being wise after the event on this one!)

I would have exercised my right to extend the Brexit transitional period for a year to avoid the government having to simultaneously juggle fighting the Covid pandemic and negotiating a Brexit deal. (Personally I have always thought Brexit is a catastrophically wrong move for our country, but I am considering what would have been politically feasible for a PM committed to Brexit. I think even most Leave voters could have been persuaded of the wisdom of extending the transitional period for a year in the circumstances. )

Genuine question to everyone who says close the borders to everything but freight- what would you have done about British nationals abroad who had nowhere to stay (with hotels etc closing all over the world)

Would you have said they should sleep on the streets wherever they were? Indefinitely?
Because they were the main returnees in flights into this country.

Started addressing the chronic underfunding of the NHS and education systems as soon as I saw what was coming.

@poshme I would allow them a strict quarantine entry service. Half my loved ones and immediate family are Portuguese. It would be a pain in the arse, it wouldn't be a refugee situation. All arranged via embassy on a 3 tier traffic light coded system. Of course you get back in. You follow the rules and get in via a quarantine adminstration interface.

(You said if I was the PM, therefore I would have the powers to arrange it the way I see fit. I would also have all the experts at my disposal just like Boris has had. I would utilise those bodies to ensure I didn't make oversights, as far as humanly possible, right back to February 2020).

@poshme

Genuine question to everyone who says close the borders to everything but freight- what would you have done about British nationals abroad who had nowhere to stay (with hotels etc closing all over the world)

Would you have said they should sleep on the streets wherever they were? Indefinitely?
Because they were the main returnees in flights into this country.

As suggested above and as many countries did in fact do, nationals and permanent residents could have been repatriated and quarantined straight from airports into managed hotel facilities for two weeks and only released after that period and two negative test results. It's basic public health protocol in these situation and really not that complex to organise, compared with dealing with the consequences of not doing it.

The problem was that those of us who were suggesting these measures in Jan and Feb were accused by many of "scaremongering". If people had listened then we'd likely now be in a similar position to Australia or NZ, with life going on pretty much as normal in most cities, just no foreign travel. I'd take that any day over this shitshow. The people who cried "scaremongering" have nearly as much to answer for as the politicians.

Although half of MN knew in January how bad this would be, I think for a lot of people it wasn't obvious.
So assuming we can't go back in time and properly fund schools and the NHS * Then I would
-enforce proper (paid for) quarantine for incoming travellers from March (in hotels, like in other countries)
-have a cross-party commitee dealing with new information and restrictions

• Give schools/businesses more than 24 hours notice of new regulations.

Probably a hugely unpopular opinion but not all* the NHS problems are due to underfunding, (but that doesn't help!)

Interesting question. I found an email I wrote to my MP on 9th March telling him exactly what I thought was required which turned out to be fairly prescient. I work in hospital management and have undergrad and postgraduate degrees in science with a healthy interest in epidemiology and had been following the virus since it was 'wuhan flu'.

I would have:

Closed the borders. Immediately. It turns out we're an island and actually have full control over who comes in and who goes out.

Made everyone returning from their fucking half term ski trips isolate in government facilities for 2 weeks, like the diamond princess passengers.

Attended the COBR meetings re the developing situation so I was fully appraised of the situation.

Had my top team of scientists/medical leaders on the phone twice a day every day from January to ensure I had the best advice.

Worn a mask and not Shaken hands with Covid patients. DICK.

Spent time sourcing local manufacturers to produce a reliable source of PPE and ensured that we had sufficient in hospitals from the start.

Bought up extra capacity for hospital beds in the private sector for covid stepdown to save sending old frail Covid + patients back to Fucking care homes

Prioritised test and trace.

Mandated masks for the general public, rather than saying the evidence was weak, and having to go back on myself later.

Sacked Cummings in May to make a clear and visible statement that the rules must be followed by all, and no one is above the law.

Invested in support for the poorest and most vulnerable in society, including in work and out of work benefits. The furlough was one aspect I approved of. I would have paid people to isolate.

Closed schools to reduce transmission. Kids can't get/spread Covid. What a load of bullshit. Yes, certain demographics are more at risk/more susceptible, but the idea that kids were somehow immune was always going to be a triumph of hope over reality.

I would have assumed closing the borders and test and trace would have surpressed but not completely eradicated the virus and would have planned for the second wave, which would be much reduced given the previous steps

I would have invested in training (online) a whole bunch of final year undergrads and recent grads as 'associate teachers' who would be equipped to deliver online learning to pupils from home

I would have massively incentivised staff with any medical/nurse training to join the NHS as reservists. I would have recruited and trained staff as care assistants to support the NHS and social care, and eventually to be involved in increased capacity for the vaccine roll out .

And if I hadn't done all of that and managed to suppress the virus in April, I would have at least listened to my advisors who recommended a fire break in September.

The people who cried "scaremongering" have nearly as much to answer for as the politicians

Totally agree. It was obvious back in January that China had a major problem. When they locked down notice was given and lots of people returned to the UK. The UK just let them in without quarantine. Well the first lot went to a hotel and it was deemed draconian ... such was the outcry they decided not to bother anymore!!

Basing political decisions on public opinion was never going to be a good choice!

Big Hooha of close the schools, second hooha of open the schools now it’s closed the schools ... guess what?

@poshme

Genuine question to everyone who says close the borders to everything but freight- what would you have done about British nationals abroad who had nowhere to stay (with hotels etc closing all over the world)

Would you have said they should sleep on the streets wherever they were? Indefinitely?
Because they were the main returnees in flights into this country.

Repatriation. What other countries have actually done.

That would be better than what's actually happened to the UK now, no?

@BluebellsGreenbells

The people who cried "scaremongering" have nearly as much to answer for as the politicians

Totally agree. It was obvious back in January that China had a major problem. When they locked down notice was given and lots of people returned to the UK. The UK just let them in without quarantine. Well the first lot went to a hotel and it was deemed draconian ... such was the outcry they decided not to bother anymore!!

Basing political decisions on public opinion was never going to be a good choice!

Big Hooha of close the schools, second hooha of open the schools now it’s closed the schools ... guess what?

All utterly mad. And now people claiming it was only mad "in hindsight"! No, many of us said it at the time and were shouted down.

Given what we know about this disease now, yes, the UK and everybody should have locked down in January..but before we go into full Monday AM quarterback mode yet again maybe it's worth a reminder of the timeline.

www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/apr/09/how-coronavirus-spread-across-the-globe-visualised

I was working "in" logistics/travel at the start of the year and the feeling end of January was that what we were starting to hear about was was roughly equivalent and would probably have the same effect as the SARS outbreak we had seen in 2002/2003..i.e. clobber air travel in the Far East but no major major effect in Europe....So no, IMHO I don't think given what anybody knew at the end of Jan would have justified shutting the UKs Border's.

Even in early February It was possible to enter/leave very SARS/virus "aware" countries such as Singapore with minimal checks, though there were some restrictions in country..so even the locals in the Far East didn't perceive the full threat...I do therefore think it's unrealistic to expect a UK PM to have ordered closure of the borders of a country sat 6000 miles further west at that time.

Now.... fast forward to end Feb, or early March : That's when the opportunity got missed. It was obvious that the situation was unravelling quickly in Europe and it was then that the penny should have dropped in Westminster...but as we know it didn't, instead we had the infamous football match at Liverpool and of course Cheltenham....

As to the idea closing UK borders completely to everything but freight - no people..at all - just dump "stuff" and turn vehicles and vessels around at the border ......

A lot of the individuals who have worked as crew on ships, aircraft, (plus HGV drivers etc) have been hard at work over the last few months bringing in to the UK not just food, but massive amounts of PPE, meds, and heavens knows what else. Many are Brits/British residents who, believe it or not, would quite like to go home (possibly into isolation) after their often multi-day block of work is finished, and not be consigned to travelling the world forever more.

I think many people have gone straight away for closing borders early.
It is a difficult situation to lead, but:

1. Closed the borders at the very beginning of this.
2. Masks from the beginning.
3. No leaking of information.
4. No allowing MPs or people related to goverment to break the rules without consequences.
5. I would have opened the schools during most of the summer to catch up on lost teaching hours. I would look into opening them in shifts, to reduce number of students per classroom. Provide resources for live teaching on- line. Seeing the teacher live seems to work better for my DD than just getting a short less9n and homework. And looking into installing ventilation systems.
6. Ensure children were considered for vaccination. And included in the vaccine trials.
7. Get more resources for track and trace if they are not meeting their targets, which have been reported to be behind several times.
8. This would need to have been done years earlier, but having a well staffed NHS and emergency services, and hospital beds. With enough trained staff to deal with high patient numbers in winter (because hospitals were already struggling before this), and some extra back up.
9. I would look into changing admissions system in hospitals so ambulances are not queueing outside the hospital waiting.

I am sure most are repeated indeed.

@poshme

Genuine question to everyone who says close the borders to everything but freight- what would you have done about British nationals abroad who had nowhere to stay (with hotels etc closing all over the world)

Would you have said they should sleep on the streets wherever they were? Indefinitely?
Because they were the main returnees in flights into this country.

You say ‘genuine question’ as if it’s a question so perplexing it has no answer.

But as others have said, again, just do what other countries have been doing for some time. Repatriate nationals in quarantine facilities (hotels), policed by e.g. the military.

There seems to be this perception that the UK simply can’t do the sorts of things other (‘backwater’ is one of the terms I’ve seen) countries are successfully doing.

The PM isn't meant to have all the answers Instead he/she needs to listen to experts and make tough decisions. There'll be a lot of experts, often representing conflicting interests.

Unfortunately, while BJ has a whole host of experts available in the form of SAGE etc, his cronies, political appointees such as Cummings, had more direct influence over him.

What's more, while BJ is undoubtably smart, he's also incredibly vain and finds making unpopular decisions hard. He (and his cabinet) often end up making the tough decisions but only after periods of indecision and to and fro-ing.

So, what would I have done dif? Appointed a different cabinet. Never had the likes of Cummings et al anywhere near me. Listen to the scientists. Dropped Brexit to free up more of my energy (that last one is unrealistic, I know but seeing as you asked...)

oh, and given at least 30% cases are asymptomatic, or at the very least don't present any of the three main symptoms, i would test everyone who's had contact with a positive case. Testing based on symptoms has been madness

Another one: I would have made sure schools were given very clear guidance on who should be required to isolate in the event of a positive case in school. Far too much discretion has been left to head teachers who are not qualified to make such decisions. My version of the guidance would have been based on actual scientific evidence rather than allowing policies based on the fiction that it's impossible to catch Covid from someone more than 2 metres away in any circumstances, or that teachers are never within 2 metres of a pupil in the classroom.

But as others have said, again, just do what other countries have been doing for some time. Repatriate nationals in quarantine facilities (hotels), policed by e.g. the military.

Only some countries.. many countries have managed returnees by having some form of "Stay at Home"/Quarantine at home" system..which has often been aggressively checked and policed..something the UK seems to have a problem with.

Putting all the Brits abroad returning from their travels in say /Feb Mar into quarantine facilities would have have quickly filled up hotel rooms around airports/government facilities (FWIW just one or two days of major days disruption at Heathrow will fill all the hotel rooms for miles around) and certainly there's no way you would have had enough "military"/G4S or Serco staff to guard them ...

If all else fails and you want "properly closed" borders you have to do what some countries have done and ration entry slots, even to nationals......

The virus was reported to WHO in December19 but the UK govt did not act until late March. Borders should have been closed from feb to contain the virus. The govt should have created a strategic roadmap which should have already been prepared from the original pandemic response committee which was disbanded 6 months prior to the pandemic. They should have followed China's example by ensuring that everyone wore masks, temperature checks and isolating people in areas where there was an outbreak. The problem with this govt is that they say one thing then u-turn every minute which has created mass confusion and hysteria. The govt has shown poor leadership and as a result alot of people have lost trust and faith in the whole system.

Countries in the carribean and Africa saw what was go in on And closed thier borders. In Grenada for example there has only been 127 cases in the past year with no deaths.

If all else fails and you want "properly closed" borders you have to do what some countries have done and ration entry slots, even to nationals

Yep, that would work for me. It's been over 9 months since lockdown, we're about to do ANOTHER lockdown. Our nationals have had plenty of notice and shouldn't be holidaying abroad right now anyway. Time to get shut the borders ffs.

I would have attended Cobra meetings in the early stages of the pandemic. Bought up lots of the right sort of PPE for the NHS at the first rumblings from China in Dec/Jan. locked down earlier including closing the borders (yes repatriate and quarantine would be part of this). Tested every person returning from a high risk area including Italy and Spain. Got track and trace working properly through public health systems (oh and not abolished PHE in the middle of a pandemic), aggressively tracking every cluster aiming for zero COVID cases (which would involve more testing). Made testing way more widely available in the beginning so spread was not occurring under the radar. Made sure people working for track and trace were experienced professionals and not unqualified teenagers. Made mask wearing compulsory at an early stage. Brought in fines for breaking the public health laws at an early stage and publicised this widely so that people understood these were being taken seriously. Not defended Cummings with the Barnard Castle fiasco. Officially advised against holidays outside of the UK this summer. Released restrictions much more cautiously and slowly in the summer, being mindful that schools start back at the beginning of September (so would not have opened pubs for example). Made actual plans for September instead of hoping for the best - asked schools to plan for blended learning one week online and one week in school so class sizes are halved. Commandeered private buildings and asked for teaching assistant volunteers so classes could spread our even more. Allowed teachers to wear PPE. Planned for a huge increase in testing demand in September and actively encouraged rather than discouraged people to test at this stage. Arranged regular routine testing for NHS and care staff. Tested patients in hospital prior to them being discharged to care homes. Added loss of taste and smell to the symptom list earlier (I’d also have had sore throat in there). Tried to get the 4 nations to generally agree on public health rules to avoid confusion and made a website where you can put in your postcode and see exactly what rules are applicable to you if they did have to diverge due to geographical issues. Run lots of advertising campaigns so people are crystal clear on what symptoms should provoke a test, how to book the test, and how long to isolate for and whether the household has to isolate (and really try hard to avoid tampering with this basic message unless there is very good reason to change it). Not close gyms and pools all the time as people need to exercise, especially in winter. Actually launched a national programme to support people with obesity instead of just muttering about it as an idea. I would not have told people everything will be under control by Christmas.