Headteacher unions begin legal proceedings against DfE

[Makingnumber2]

www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/news/leadership-news/update-regarding-start-of-term-sent-to-members-on-2-jan-2021/?fbclid=IwAR3WFugSo-KsSToWAvbteMs8HspeXZTMBd9VaiOlAVxOeL0FM1wDRzqbviA

NAHT and ASCL start legal proceedings against DfE

@SansaSnark

Close schools then fine, but they should be the last things to close and everything else should also be closed to help stop the spread.

Parents should make sure their kids aren’t mixing with their friends and stay home means exactly that.

So many people are making hang hearted efforts. You just have to go to the supermarket and folk aren’t following the 2 metre social distancing rule.

When I drive to work now, it’s as busy as every other day. When I drive in April the roads were dead

The problem is folk can’t do as they’re asked.

So much rule breaking is "OK because schools are open, if they're mixing so can I".

Most of the spread is from people doing perfectly legal things like go to work, school or the shops. Unlike the DM narrative that a midnight rave is causing the spread.

It's not even about personal safety, for me. I want to do what's right in general, like Sansa says. If it's going to save thousands of lives to stay away and force schools to go online, or cost thousands of lives to turn up as usual, which is the morally correct choice?

I also agree with Pavlova, though. This decision should not be placed on the teachers themselves. We shouldn't all have to decide individually to call in. I think most teachers will not want to leave their colleagues and working parents in the lurch on Monday and so will show up to work, despite knowing that on a macro level, it would be better if we all did the opposite.

@TildaTurnip

I don’t think it’s a bad idea for schools to close for another couple of weeks to help get the rates down - but my point it, there’s no point doing that when in every other aspect of life, folk aren’t taking it seriously.

If schools are to close to help prevent the spread, then people should look at their habits outside of work etc... because imo school closures will be in vein if people continue on as they are and generally not giving a shit

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

The problem is folk can’t do as they’re asked.

So much rule breaking is "OK because schools are open, if they're mixing so can I".

Most of the spread is from people doing perfectly legal things like go to work, school or the shops. Unlike the DM narrative that a midnight rave is causing the spread.

Well that’s not what I witness when I go shopping. Social distancing? What’s that?!

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

The problem is folk can’t do as they’re asked.

So much rule breaking is "OK because schools are open, if they're mixing so can I".

Most of the spread is from people doing perfectly legal things like go to work, school or the shops. Unlike the DM narrative that a midnight rave is causing the spread.

Yea this , so many people are catching covid doing perfectly legal things like going to work , school , shopping etc rather than ‘breaking the rules’ It’s annoying to see the media trying to sell this as rule breakers.

Yeah but that’s be as people break rules left right and centre. It only spreads because folk take risks

What can be more risky than a bunch of 30 kids being in a small room together for 6 hours a day?
If those same teenagers were having a party at someone's house, neighbours would be calling the police.
But it's school, so it's safe.

Shopping is legal. Social distancing is guidance not law. People are spreading it doing legal activities. There is some spread from illegal activities, but most of the spread is not from people doing things they aren't supposed to. My circle of friends haven't mixed at all outside their bubbles. We aren't alone.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that it is spreading in schools. No other situation in life (currently) has so many people in a non socially distanced environment for more than 10 minutes let alone up to 2 hours.

@saraclara

Yeah but that’s be as people break rules left right and centre. It only spreads because folk take risks

What can be more risky than a bunch of 30 kids being in a small room together for 6 hours a day?
If those same teenagers were having a party at someone's house, neighbours would be calling the police.
But it's school, so it's safe.

If a teacher organised something at home that was the same as their classroom they'd be fined £10,000!

Speaks for itself

If a teacher organised something at home that was the same as their classroom they'd be fined £10,000!

Nail in head!!

I was going to give examples but I can’t be bothered. I know lots of people over the course of this that have broken the rules. Nothing huge in the grand scheme but enough to facilitate the spread

And I think we all agree that some illegal mixing has spread the virus. But that chart shows 30% of people got coronavirus from an educational setting. That's a pretty high percentage considering 30% of people aren't in education.

Close schools then fine, but they should be the last things to close and everything else should also be closed to help stop the spread.

This option is exactly what isn’t working right now. And hundreds of thousands of people have lost livelihoods and are facing absolute poverty because of it. And it still isn’t enough.

How about we try a new option? Get properly set up for a rota system to allow social distancing within classrooms, or have the “masks on corridors” rule extended to classrooms, or provide sufficient funding for soap, sanitiser and supply staff.

I can’t believe it needs saying, but actually my life is more valuable to me than 2 weeks of in-person learning for children. If people think that is selfish I really don’t care.

So, @TableFlowerss, what is it that is facilitating the spread in schools then?

The bold teachers protected by union should use section 44...the worried ones should call in sick.

[quote TableFlowerss]@SansaSnark

Close schools then fine, but they should be the last things to close and everything else should also be closed to help stop the spread.

Parents should make sure their kids aren’t mixing with their friends and stay home means exactly that.

So many people are making hang hearted efforts. You just have to go to the supermarket and folk aren’t following the 2 metre social distancing rule.

When I drive to work now, it’s as busy as every other day. When I drive in April the roads were dead[/quote]
I do agree with you, but:

-In tier 4 areas, basically everything else is closed already.

-A lot of parents think their kids can mix because they are already doing it in school. A lot of kids mix on the way too or from school as well.

-Closing schools might actually send a message to people that this is serious again, and they do need to bother.

I agree, everywhere else is too busy too- but I can't do much to influence that.

@Flaxmeadow

I think if schools open as they were last term, more people will die. Based on that belief, do you really think I should be going into school?

Yes I do. Especially for primary age children. Young childrens educational, physical and emotional welfare must come first, sorry.

.... anything to win an argument?!

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

And I think we all agree that some illegal mixing has spread the virus. But that chart shows 30% of people got coronavirus from an educational setting. That's a pretty high percentage considering 30% of people aren't in education.

It doesn't show that they got it from an educational setting. Those stats show where people who tested positive had been in the 48 hours before. It doesn't mean that that's where they caught it.

For instance, of course supermarkets are at the top. If you asked anyone, covid positive or not, where they'd been in the last 48 hours, the highest number would have been food shopping.

It doesn't show that they got it from an educational setting. Those stats show where people who tested positive had been in the 48 hours before. It doesn't mean that that's where they caught it.

You are thinking of a different chart. Those stats show where people who tested positive for covid had a recent exposure to another positive case.

@noblegiraffe

It doesn't show that they got it from an educational setting. Those stats show where people who tested positive had been in the 48 hours before. It doesn't mean that that's where they caught it.

You are thinking of a different chart. Those stats show where people who tested positive for covid had a recent exposure to another positive case.

Ah. My bad. I should be more careful. Apologies to @HercwasanEnemyofEducation

Yes I do. Especially for primary age children. Young childrens educational, physical and emotional welfare must come first, sorry.

And what about the physical and emotional welfare of the children who'll lose parents because of this?

And what about the physical and emotional welfare of the children who'll lose parents because of this?

So what do you want? All parents to stay at home? Supermarket staff, NHS, social services, police. Thats impossible obviously.

Not sure what you mean?

@Flaxmeadow

I think if schools open as they were last term, more people will die. Based on that belief, do you really think I should be going into school?

Yes I do. Especially for primary age children. Young childrens educational, physical and emotional welfare must come first, sorry.

Jesus Christ. I want to say something to this but I can’t, I’m actually speechless.

Here - I'll spell it out for you, since you are having trouble with it.

It would be a bad idea to have everyone go to work as usual. Covid would spread and lots of people would die.

It would be a bad idea for no-one to go to work as usual. People would starve, get sick and die.

It would be a good idea for the people who need to go to work so that no-one starves or gets really sick, but for the people who can do so to stay at home until cases go down.

You don't have to pick between everyone working and no-one working.

Is it a bit clearer now?