Headteacher unions begin legal proceedings against DfE

[Makingnumber2]

www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/news/leadership-news/update-regarding-start-of-term-sent-to-members-on-2-jan-2021/?fbclid=IwAR3WFugSo-KsSToWAvbteMs8HspeXZTMBd9VaiOlAVxOeL0FM1wDRzqbviA

NAHT and ASCL start legal proceedings against DfE

Holy fuck, @Flaxmeadow.
I've read some shit on here, quite lot of it from you, but Jesus, you've stooped low there.

I'm not often stumped for words, but....
Let's just say that I'm very glad I don't know you in real life.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Flaxmeadow I'll be sure to tell the children of my 2 dead colleagues that their emotional welfare means crap all. As long as other children are ok eh ? I was going to keep off these stupid things but I am so angry tonight at losing another friend. And seeing 3 more children without a parent.[/quote]
This is so terribly sad.

I’m sure they are. Have you seen this for yourself ?

Flax

Take a look at this front page:

I imagine you agree with the main headline?

Now look at the story at the bottom.

How, in terms of keeping children safe, is it ok to make a decision that risks massively overwhelming the nhs. That means children being unable to access medical care because hospitals are full.

If the nhs goes under, the repercussions are far worse than if schools stay shut for an additional 2 or 3 weeks. Get transmission under control, do more to limit ongoing transmission within schools and set up a robust testing system.

Why is that not better?

Sorry that was meant for @TableFlowerss

As a pp said before, close everything then. Absolutely everything. Everyone for themselves and their own family. If it’s that unsafe we have to stay at home at all cost. The government will just have to print more money. All stay at home.

But... remember that means all jobs, not just teaches. Hospital staff, cares and the like all to stay at home as after all. Why should they put their lives at risk? Don’t phone an ambulance, they can’t be expected to deal with jo public. No doctors, no dentists, all hospital appointments cancelled. Everyone should have the right to feel safe right?....

@Flaxmeadow

I think if schools open as they were last term, more people will die. Based on that belief, do you really think I should be going into school?

Yes I do. Especially for primary age children. Young childrens educational, physical and emotional welfare must come first, sorry.

Jeeze. This is almost psychopathic.

I think we all agree school is important and should be open to all when possible
At 50000 a day I don't think it is possible to open schools as normal safely
In all honestly whatever measures we put in will only make it safer not risk free
Simple measure is closed couple weeks and hope that brings infections down then return with ppe at least And and other measures that can be put in place
I will take 2/3 weeks no school if it means we are all in a better place as numbers down is good for all of us and means we are all at less risk

@Flaxmeadow

I think if schools open as they were last term, more people will die. Based on that belief, do you really think I should be going into school?

Yes I do. Especially for primary age children. Young childrens educational, physical and emotional welfare must come first, sorry.

I don't believe for a minute that you mean that sorry, you clearly don't give a shit.

Me neither

@Flaxmeadow

I think if schools open as they were last term, more people will die. Based on that belief, do you really think I should be going into school?

Yes I do. Especially for primary age children. Young childrens educational, physical and emotional welfare must come first, sorry.

Wow, there are no words ....

The things you take of should be provided by parents. They chose to have their children and are the ones responsible for them.

Mumsneedwine I'm so sorest I hear another of your colleagues has passed away. I know you've had a few in ICU too. How are they doing now?

@TableFlowerss

As a pp said before, close everything then. Absolutely everything. Everyone for themselves and their own family. If it’s that unsafe we have to stay at home at all cost. The government will just have to print more money. All stay at home.

But... remember that means all jobs, not just teaches. Hospital staff, cares and the like all to stay at home as after all. Why should they put their lives at risk? Don’t phone an ambulance, they can’t be expected to deal with jo public. No doctors, no dentists, all hospital appointments cancelled. Everyone should have the right to feel safe right?....

Oh don't be so bloody ridiculous.

Everyone for themselves and their own family. If it’s that unsafe we have to stay at home at all cost.

^^

I do not think you understand, it almost is everyone for themselves right now - because if you become ill and an ambulance cannot get too - or does after several hours and cant get you into hospital - you are on your own.

@TableFlowerss

As a pp said before, close everything then. Absolutely everything. Everyone for themselves and their own family. If it’s that unsafe we have to stay at home at all cost. The government will just have to print more money. All stay at home.

But... remember that means all jobs, not just teaches. Hospital staff, cares and the like all to stay at home as after all. Why should they put their lives at risk? Don’t phone an ambulance, they can’t be expected to deal with jo public. No doctors, no dentists, all hospital appointments cancelled. Everyone should have the right to feel safe right?....

All that is being asked for is a couple of weeks to get some control and have things in place that will protect everyone in schools, staff and pupils, and the families they go home to. No-one's asking for a complete shutdown for months.

If the govt seriously addresses the issues of safety in schools they can re-open again. Testing of all ages, priority vaccination, and (in secondary schools), rotas and blended learning, will all enable schools to operate more safely.

If they hadn't been so stubborn in refusing headteachers' requests for these things, we wouldn't be in this position.

Hospital staff, cares and the like all to stay at home as after all. Why should they put their lives at risk? Don’t phone an ambulance, they can’t be expected to deal with jo public. No doctors, no dentists

Those people all wear PPE, as do the people they come into contact with. Give schools the same, and they'll be open.

FWIW Unison have now directed their members about their rights for safe working environment as NEU have.

@CallmeAngelina

It doesn’t work like that. You can’t complain that one group are being made to work in a risky environment but say it’s ridiculous to question the safety of other fields....

@Flaxmeadow

I think if schools open as they were last term, more people will die. Based on that belief, do you really think I should be going into school?

Yes I do. Especially for primary age children. Young childrens educational, physical and emotional welfare must come first, sorry.

Well, I don't teach primary, for starters.

But I'm confused.

How does it benefit children's physical welfare to go to school and risk catching an illness?

How does it benefit their emotional welfare to deal with family members dying who might not have done otherwise?

Can't you see there is a trade off?

Or do you believe the virus doesn't spread in schools? And if so, how do you explain the increase in infections in school age children since September?

Also, in many schools, last term was a mess educationally because of the repeated self isolation of groups of students.

@saraclara

It won’t be for two weeks though will it?! That’s the problem. It’ll be extended and extended.

The problem is folk can’t do as they’re asked. They aren’t following the rules. Folk don’t dare anymore and are getting far too complacent

I'm a teacher, I love learning and teaching and my whole family do. I hate teaching online and would prefer to teach the lovely pupils in person. It is great that people think that education is important. Not everybody does!

However, in the past, I have also had the awful experience of seeing my own child close to death for several weeks.

This experience has given me some real perspective. Education is important. But trust me it is not that important. It is not as important as having a healthy child or a living parent.

care

@TableFlowerss

As a pp said before, close everything then. Absolutely everything. Everyone for themselves and their own family. If it’s that unsafe we have to stay at home at all cost. The government will just have to print more money. All stay at home.

But... remember that means all jobs, not just teaches. Hospital staff, cares and the like all to stay at home as after all. Why should they put their lives at risk? Don’t phone an ambulance, they can’t be expected to deal with jo public. No doctors, no dentists, all hospital appointments cancelled. Everyone should have the right to feel safe right?....

As I've said on this thread, I genuinely believe that by having schools open as normal, infections in young people are increasing. They pass this on to the rest of the community, and some of those people will die. I believe having schools open is increasing deaths (and increasing the risk to HCP, too).

I don't believe anyone will die through me not going into school.

So what should I do?

Serious question. Do you honestly think going to work is the ethical choice?

@Panickingpavlova

Everyone for themselves and their own family. If it’s that unsafe we have to stay at home at all cost.

^^

I do not think you understand, it almost is everyone for themselves right now - because if you become ill and an ambulance cannot get too - or does after several hours and cant get you into hospital - you are on your own.

Yeah but that’s be as people break rules left right and centre. It only spreads because folk take risks

@Flaxmeadow

I think if schools open as they were last term, more people will die. Based on that belief, do you really think I should be going into school?

Yes I do. Especially for primary age children. Young childrens educational, physical and emotional welfare must come first, sorry.

Wow this must be up there with the most vile posts. And this is why it’s not worth even engaging in debate with some people. Death is a valid outcome , really

[quote TableFlowerss]@CallmeAngelina

It doesn’t work like that. You can’t complain that one group are being made to work in a risky environment but say it’s ridiculous to question the safety of other fields....[/quote]
School staff are simply asking to be able to be as safe as they can be at work. The lack of safety in another field is irrelevant to that as it is not either or, nor a race to the bottom.