Headteacher unions begin legal proceedings against DfE

[Makingnumber2]

www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/news/leadership-news/update-regarding-start-of-term-sent-to-members-on-2-jan-2021/?fbclid=IwAR3WFugSo-KsSToWAvbteMs8HspeXZTMBd9VaiOlAVxOeL0FM1wDRzqbviA

NAHT and ASCL start legal proceedings against DfE

@TableFlowerss

Let’s hope the care staff, medical staff, nursing staff, bank staff, supermarket staff to name but a few areas don’t follow suit.....

Why?

I'd love it if other sectors followed suit.

@WherethebejesusisGav well you can say it but doesn't make it right . You are paid by the taxpayer thats how it is and you provide a service in affect , if someone is unhapoy with your service they can voice that, have you never made a complaint in your life
If a parent felt they had an issue with your teaching , would you say their opinion is irrelevent

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@abraxan you haven't worked in private sector to see how difficult this actually is and on minimum wage jobs sometimes unaffordable[/quote]
How do you know if I have worked in the private sector or not. I have done in the last actually, albeit not for many years.

However, my dh, my siblings, my bil, my parents, my friends, several of my family etc all work in the private sector.

Many of these were in unions of some form.

@Hercwasonasnowball

How are retail staff more at risk?

Things shops have that schools don't
-social distancing
-masks being worn

• adults that (generally) follow rules

-space -limited numbers of people allowed in

Whilst I fully support closure of schools when this new variant is out of control (careworker here, 30 residents dead, 70% of staff fell ill because of initial inadequacies of PPE back in March, one daughter got A Level results this year - A*AA - eldest in prison - youngest in yr 10 - I’ve tested positive twice) you need to take onboard the following points re retail staff - specifically supermarket workers who are very much at risk and who earn minimum wage or just above:

There is very little social distancing in supermarkets - it’s mostly a free for all and I live in a polite, mostly middle class town in the Southwest.

Retail staff work long hours - some do 12-hr shifts in huge supermarkets and there are large numbers of people constantly passing through.

A lot of the public have little respect for retail staff and can be very demanding and rude.

I would support closure of schools until effective testing is in place for staff and kids. I detest online learning with a burning passion especially when I work 12-hr shifts and cannot be at home to supervise my 14 yr old daughter who loves being at school and who will really struggle. I have tried to persuade her to go in as I am a keyworker but there are very few kids that do and a lot of stigma around it.

A lot of professions are suffering at the moment.

@SansaSnark you can't actually mean that , so hospitals just stop , care staff refuse to go in and look after the elderly , supermarket staff stay at home ? None of these can do their jobs from home and we would have no healthcare , food if the bin men stopped collecting we would have rubbish in the streets
None of these can take the same actioon

And he's, unions cost but they are usually based in your income. Some of our lowest paid school support staff are in minimum wage but are still part of a union, through choice.

However, I do know for some the cost may be a stumbling block. That is, however, a different issue than what we were talking about prior to your last post.

The reality is that unions ARE available across the private and public sector. It is a choice as to whether someone joins one or not.

My relationship with the head is...not great. Since I wasn't shielded she says her hands are tied. My DC's love the school or I would deregister, but it would break their hearts I think.
Out of all this I was praying they might see the need for some flexibility .

Care home staff are working with residents who by and large are not being allowed visitors. One of my daughters friends parents run and live in a care home. Staff are also allowed to wear PPE. The student stayed with friends over Christmas because there was too high a risk of her bringing Covid into the home from her school.

I don’t presume to know the ins and outs of the retail sector. Why would I be telling them what to do? If they were walking out under section 44 I’d probably assume they had a good reason.

I haven't told anyone what to do. I've given my opinion on whether or not teachers should strike but apparently, according to you, that shouldn't be allowed.

Teachers should not go on strike during this crisis and if they do, the general public will not support it. That is my opinion whether you like or not

They CAN legally. Refuse collectors ahve gone on strike before. Section 44 was threatened in April when care workers had no PPE.

@Abraxan well if the hundred i know that do none are in a union anymore so I find it strange you know so many and I bet if I could find statistics it would be very low

Tableflowers.Ignorant comment.

Secondary school staff face up to 150 different students a day in groups of 30 or more squashed into tiny rooms. No masks, no distancing. This government has let down school staff AND students. They have no voice, but now they do.

What important key worker position do you hold?

We can’t because the people we care for would suffer massively - unfortunately we just have to get on with it. Most of us are too exhausted to put up a fight at the moment anyway.

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@abraxan you haven't worked in private sector to see how difficult this actually is and on minimum wage jobs sometimes unaffordable[/quote]
Unite have special rates for those on low pay, and their full membership includes benefits like a payout if you become disabled or die and payout towards your funeral- as well as the usual benefits of being in a union.

You don't have to tell your employer you have joined a union until you need it.

If a parent felt they had an issue with your teaching , would you say their opinion is irrelevent

That would depend on the situation. I work in partnership with the parents of the children in my school - I’m always open to listening to them about their child.

Do I think they are experts in teaching? No. Do I think they any idea what it’s like teaching? No. Do I think they understand what teaching in a pandemic is like? No.

They are, however, experts in their child and that’s very, very important.

2.7 million people 2019 in private sector in union thats pretty low

Teachers should not go on strike during this crisis and if they do, the general public will not support it. That is my opinion whether you like or not

And - given you can’t even take on board that it isn’t a strike - your opinion is irrelevant.

Keep on voicing it though, if you like.

Getoff Nobles response amused me purely on the basis Flax has repeatedly been told over and over this isn't a strike. She's been given the evidence to the contrary of her beliefs.
Yet repeatedly says it's a strike.

If my ds did this to a teacher then I'd hope they put him back in his box like Noble did.

It's a great life lesson to learn that when you are actually wrong - rather than having a differing opinion - believing your own hype doesn't make you right!

I can't answer for those you know who have chosen not to join a union.

The family and friends I know in certain private sector professions are members of unions which are specific to their jobs.

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@SansaSnark you can't actually mean that , so hospitals just stop , care staff refuse to go in and look after the elderly , supermarket staff stay at home ? None of these can do their jobs from home and we would have no healthcare , food if the bin men stopped collecting we would have rubbish in the streets
None of these can take the same actioon[/quote]
Of course, I mean it.

Can't you see if everyone took action at once, the government would have to sit up and listen and make things safer for everyone?

We probably wouldn't even have to go through with it- just the threat would make the government have to sit up and listen.

Not that it's hugely relevant, but bin men have definitely been on strike more recently than teachers.

@MadameTuffington

We can’t because the people we care for would suffer massively - unfortunately we just have to get on with it. Most of us are too exhausted to put up a fight at the moment anyway.

If you genuinely thought that you going to work was somehow making society less safe for everyone, what would you do, though?

@WherethebejesusisGav but some of them may have been a teacher ? They may be fully aware of what working as a teacher is you may not know as they might not choose to tell you this , so your making assumptions straight away. Some teachers won't agree with you either and i am pretty sure you have opinions in life , you are saying how the goverment should do things but have you ever been an mp ?

you need to take onboard the following points re retail staff - specifically supermarket workers who are very much at risk and who earn minimum wage or just above

The ONS data is not showing supermarket staff to be getting covid at the same rate as education staff.

Your other points just highlight that you haven't been into a school since September because otherwise you'd know how different they are to a supermarket. Secondary teacher here who is in as much contact as a supermarket worker with 350+ students per day, and in the same small unventilated for up to two hours with approx 100 different students per day.

A lot of professions are suffering at the moment.

And I fully support any action they wish to take to be safer in work.

@Comefromaway

Care home staff are working with residents who by and large are not being allowed visitors. One of my daughters friends parents run and live in a care home. Staff are also allowed to wear PPE. The student stayed with friends over Christmas because there was too high a risk of her bringing Covid into the home from her school.

At my home it is totally at the discretion of the management and on occasion, completely unsafe - we are unionised but many are too scared they will lose their jobs if they speak up - this is the reality for some people.

I worked as a TA in a secondary school for 14 years - we had many privileges that care staff do not - I love my current job and left education because the pay is better and the role more challenging - the conditions are far worse though.

'It's a great life lesson to learn that when you are actually wrong - rather than having a differing opinion - believing your own hype doesn't make you right!'

Absolutely, totally agree with you but one shouldn't report or comment that others are 'goading' whilst doing so themselves. Well they can and do but it's a bit hypocritical that's all.