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Original poster

Headteacher unions begin legal proceedings against DfE

791 replies

Makingnumber2 · 02/01/2021 11:30

www.naht.org.uk/news-and-opinion/news/leadership-news/update-regarding-start-of-term-sent-to-members-on-2-jan-2021/?fbclid=IwAR3WFugSo-KsSToWAvbteMs8HspeXZTMBd9VaiOlAVxOeL0FM1wDRzqbviA

NAHT and ASCL start legal proceedings against DfE

OP posts:
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5
donewithitalltodayandxmas · 02/01/2021 20:54

@Beebityboo guess if schools close won't be an option otherwise yes we will be expected to send them in etc or lie or de register ,

ChloeCrocodile · 02/01/2021 20:55

@donewithitalltodayandxmas I’m currently a teacher, but before that I was an engineer. Being in a union was certainly unusual it that workplace! But then I’m not really afraid of being laughed at, and I saw it as an insurance policy in case I needed reliable advice on my working conditions or support in an employment tribunal.

SansaSnark · 02/01/2021 20:55

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@SansaSark there are tons of jobs you can't join a union , myself and dh have never had that option and worked in construction , catering , admin , shops etc [/quote]
I'm pretty sure Unite would have represented you in all of those jobs!

The GMB will represent anyone in any job.

USDAW is a union specifically for shop workers.

You may not have had a rep in your workplace, but that doesn't mean you can't join a union.

There are very few jobs in the UK where you are legally barred from joining a union...

CoffeeCreamandSugar · 02/01/2021 20:56

@Beebityboo

Does anyone have any idea where parents stand if (as I think is now looking more likely) they open the schools as planned? If the people we trust to teach/look after our children are saying it isn't safe to be in school, how can parents be legally obligated to send them? As it stands I have to choose to either lie to the school, tell the truth and risk prosecution, or deregister (as I already have had to do for my eldest DD). I'm CV and in a real mess over this.
I’m going to lie to begin with (if needed). I will deregister if I have to though.
WherethebejesusisGav · 02/01/2021 20:56

now your being unreasonable we All went to school , many of us have dc in schools and we may have friends and families who work in schools many of them have different experiences and opinions and again taxpayers can have an opinion and they are also parents of children you teach

You’re right, that is why everyone feels as though they can weigh in and tell teachers how to do their job.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 02/01/2021 20:56

@WherethebejesusisGav how your school runs may be different to another and I know several teachers they have vArying opinions and experiences as work in different schools and areas
You can't say someones opinions is simply irrelevent as they don't work in a school we have many opinions on things we don't work in or do

Flaxmeadow · 02/01/2021 20:57

Think you're forgetting that some of us have seen a lot of your posts since March. You haven't been polite, you have been frequently very belittling.

Nonsense
What happens is teachers, or political activists or both, start one of these many many threads, and when someone has the temerity to disagree, with strike action for example, its "shut up, you're being mean to teachers, go away". Happens everytime, because no one is allowed to disagree

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 02/01/2021 20:58

@SansaSark do you work in public sector ? Its not the done thing and no never had a union rep its not the same as teachers have with unions

Abraxan · 02/01/2021 20:58

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@Abraxan but it doesn't happen in the private sector its really not the same as being in a union with numerous other members of your profession [/quote]
It does happen in some parts of the private sector. I know a number of people who work in the private sector who belong to a union.

However, whilst it may not be the common thing to do in some jobs/professions it doesn't mean it couldn't happen if those workers wanted to join up together. There isn't anything actually stopping a group of retail staff or construction workers all joining up together if they wanted to benefit from the kind of things union membership can bring.

SansaSnark · 02/01/2021 20:58

@Beebityboo

Does anyone have any idea where parents stand if (as I think is now looking more likely) they open the schools as planned? If the people we trust to teach/look after our children are saying it isn't safe to be in school, how can parents be legally obligated to send them? As it stands I have to choose to either lie to the school, tell the truth and risk prosecution, or deregister (as I already have had to do for my eldest DD). I'm CV and in a real mess over this.
What's your relationship with the head like?

Some schools have said they will allow parents who are CEV or CV to educate their children off site initially.

I would speak to the head as a first port of call.

Panickingpavlova · 02/01/2021 20:59

This will be our challenge next week with 4 of us at home and 3 lap tops.

Older dd will have to listen on her phone and do hw later.
Unfortunately I have low expectations of primary school provision but I'm not bothered now.
I forged my own way last time and will do again.
The situation is too far gone, too out of control to fuss around, it really is.
We must all do our best and if my older dd had just had some interaction and live teaching last time it would have hugely benefited her.
I'm don't think her school will get away with it again.
We've been told normal time table and that's my expectation.
However, I'm working hard to get her into a different school come September anyway.

It's hard to put the situation we are in into perspective because it's soft and non visual.
If bombs were dropping, which covid bombs are.. Would we really be having some of the arguments people have on here?
Eg bombs wiping out school don't seem to affect children, children don't get hit by falling debris so they don't need helmets, teachers do get hit by debris but they mustn't wear helmets because it will scare the children...

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 02/01/2021 20:59

Opinions are fine. But when you're repeatedly told why your ideas are wrong, perhaps you'd be wise to listen.

I may say "non essential retail staff should move into essential retail rather than be furloughed". Then I'm sure you'd explain why that was a bad idea and I would say "ah OK, didn't realise xyz reason, carry on with furlough".

GetOffYourHighHorse · 02/01/2021 20:59

'you are not speaking to one of your pupils now'

'That's obvious. My pupils actually respond to feedback and make corrections when they've gone wrong'

'Grin'

itsgettingweird Noble's response might have amused you yet she handwrings about 'goading'. There's a lot of pot calling kettle going on tbh. Don't dish it out if you cant take it. Make your minds up

'But your opinion is irrelevant because you don’t have the faintest idea about working in a school.'

My kids go to school therefore my opinion is relevant thanks.

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 02/01/2021 21:00

@WherethebejesusisGav people are disagreeing ( not many ) on this action not the same as telling you how to do your job, but lets be honest there are good and bad teachers like in all professions , we all tell mps how to do there jobs on a daily basis

SansaSnark · 02/01/2021 21:00

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@SansaSark do you work in public sector ? Its not the done thing and no never had a union rep its not the same as teachers have with unions [/quote]
I'm a teacher, but I've worked in the private sector before. I've always been a union member though!

It's not the same, no, but the only way to make it the same is to start. Join a union tomorrow! Encourage others in your workplace to do so!

I would hate not to be in a union- I'd feel so at risk at work. And in most jobs there is a degree of personal liability these days- a union usually provides you with protection against this!

Flaxmeadow · 02/01/2021 21:00

I wouldn’t tell people working in retail how to do it.

Are you seriously expecting us to believe that if supermarket staff said they want to walk out, that is to strike, that you would not have an opinion on it or that others shouldn't voice their opinions either?

WherethebejesusisGav · 02/01/2021 21:01

You can't say someones opinions is simply irrelevent as they don't work in a school we have many opinions on things we don't work in or do

Why can’t I say that?

TableFlowerss · 02/01/2021 21:01

Let’s hope the care staff, medical staff, nursing staff, bank staff, supermarket staff to name but a few areas don’t follow suit.....

donewithitalltodayandxmas · 02/01/2021 21:02

@abraxan you haven't worked in private sector to see how difficult this actually is and on minimum wage jobs sometimes unaffordable

WherethebejesusisGav · 02/01/2021 21:03

Are you seriously expecting us to believe that if supermarket staff said they want to walk out, that is to strike, that you would not have an opinion on it or that others shouldn't voice their opinions either?

I don’t presume to know the ins and outs of the retail sector. Why would I be telling them what to do? If they were walking out under section 44 I’d probably assume they had a good reason.

SansaSnark · 02/01/2021 21:03

I do think unless you've been in a school last term, you can't really understand how weird it is going from queuing at the supermarket or sitting at a socially distanced table in a pub with all the staff wearing masks, to going into a school which is running almost as normal.

Panickingpavlova · 02/01/2021 21:03

Beebity, just say they are under the weather headachy ect and its best to keep them off.

It's clear there is breach of trust, this battle will go on, some medics in the media have said this is nothing compared to what's coming next week..

Personally, I know its not safe, I don't want a clock ticking agaisnt me or empty discussion on safety when, whilst I do commend them on safety.. They are not miracle workers and can only work with the feeble provisions they havre.

Also parents have a moral and legal duty to protect our dc. We keep hearing on here how a parent knowingly sending dc into danger could spark off sw and intervention.

Abraxan · 02/01/2021 21:04

@TableFlowerss

Let’s hope the care staff, medical staff, nursing staff, bank staff, supermarket staff to name but a few areas don’t follow suit.....
I would support ANY worker in their quest for some form of basic protection from covid, if they are currently working in unsafe environments without the basics available to them.
SansaSnark · 02/01/2021 21:04

@Flaxmeadow

I wouldn’t tell people working in retail how to do it.

Are you seriously expecting us to believe that if supermarket staff said they want to walk out, that is to strike, that you would not have an opinion on it or that others shouldn't voice their opinions either?

I'd absolutely have an opinion and offer them my solidarity.
Piggywaspushed · 02/01/2021 21:04

The staff at my banks are predominantly WFH so I very very much doubt it.