Another u turn - London schools

[ByersRd]

All to delay opening.

I don't see how in all conscience parents in tier 4 outside London are expected to dutifully send them in or face fines.

At a very basic level that is suggesting London children are worthy of greater protection. It wont stand up. They will all shut

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

The jobs are necessary, yes even finance / bank jobs by that token all jobs are necessary. We all need to focus in our roles to keep them

Of course all jobs are important to the families who rely on them. But there's a reason for a key worker list when push comes to shove : in the short term our communities rely on the key workers being in work every day. Like wax says, we all pay tax but in the short term that's not the issue. Warm bodies on the ground are.

Of course all jobs are important to the families who rely on them. But there's a reason for a key worker list when push comes to shove well I disagree as I know people who qualified working from home for private companies last time. As another poster pointed out, if a key worker can decide to not use a place they probably aren’t a key worker

@formerbabe I'm inclined to agree about some people abusing it. If there is just one key worker parent then I don't necessarily think a place should be allocated.

I am not a key worker but I can't work from home. I am also a single parent. So if school closes I literally have a choice between begging family members to look after DS so I can work or begging to be put on furlough and my colleagues having to do overtime doing my job as well as their own. So honestly it does grate a bit at people taking up spaces who don't necessarily need them. I realise my job isn't critical but it's critical to me as the only earner in the house.

At a very basic level that is suggesting London children are worthy of greater protection.

Pretty sure it’s about protecting the wider population not protecting children. However you are probably right, schools in other areas will also delay.

Any official info on nurseries yet?

I'm in tier 4 in NW and the rate in my area is 6 per 100,000, well below some tier 3 areas - if they shut schools and nurseries across all tier 4 regions I don't think it is justified or sensible.

So are all private schools closed as well as it wouldnt be fair otherwise?

Thankfully our schools are open and if not then we are both keyworkers !

What's the point of the tier system if the rules aren't the same within each tier?

Either create tier 5 for school closures or close all schools in tier 4 (except KWV kids of course).

Private school will close too - we just got the email. They generally follow the same guidelines.

Lots of north west areas have lower than average rates but are in tier 4. I would NOT like a blanket closure of all tier 4 area schools, thank you.

At a very basic level that is suggesting London children are worthy of greater protection

Absolutely no one has suggested that schools are closing in order to protect children.

Why does everything have to be labelled a u-turn or a climb down

How about they made a decision based on info on x day, x days later new information is out that changes the decision....

I mean christ is that just acting on info at hand at the time as opposed to using thise words to basically have another rub at the government like they are doing things wrong, cos its so easy for us to say do this and that but we aren't privy to everything they get

It was lunacy to think that some London primaries could stay open. Not sure if other tier 4 areas have such high rates but the sensible thing would be to close all the schools now like they did in March and get ahead of the virus.

As others have said it’s not about protecting children but the population as a whole, and stopping the overall spread. Children see other family members and spread it to them once they’ve picked it up at school.

I wouldn’t be worried about my ds so much for his own sake but that he could pass it to others, like anyone we saw in the supermarket who might be vulnerable or his pregnant step mum.

@ottertail

Primary schools were "shut" for 14 weeks not all year.

Also from June they were open and teaching Nursery, Reception, Year 1, Year 6 and keyworker children.

No the bloody weren't!!!

We are teaching live lessons to all when we go back (private).

cyclingmad
It's not really a 'u-turn', rather a handbrake turn.
And I think the bad feeling arises because the original proposal was completely and utterly, obviously, flying in the face of logic.
We need, desperately need, to get ahead of this.
Decisions don't just appear to be 'x, made on y day, in the light of z data'. Decisions appear to be made on the basis of 'shiiiiit. We were told this was going to happen two months ago, it's happening. Fuuuuuck, let's do the thing someone suggested in the light of data we had three months ago. Oh fiuuuuuuuck. That would have worked three months ago but we left it too late ... '

It's beyond horrific.

I get really annoyed when people label it as a ‘U-Turn’ ... I’m pretty sure the virus doesn’t give pre warning of how many it’s going to infect etc ... . I would much rather a government who reacted to the latest stats rather than ‘stick to something they said last week when the stats were different’.

@frizzyandfrazzled

November lockdown brought our NW city rates down which were much higher in October but noone shut schools then. Tier 4 may well work again (it's lower here than the national average!) - please give it time and kids a chance to learn where they learn best. The government should never have put London in tier 2 and it's on them to figure out ways of providing education safely (has part-time even been considered?)

This was right after half term though, when Schools were already shut!

Dee1975 The government were warned about the new variant a couple of months ago.
Sage had to go public to get them to act.
And here we are - with hospitals in Lindon sending patients to the South-west because they're full.

The projections for the impact of this new variant are far, far worse than what we experienced last year.

And yet our government is acting sloooowly.

It's not that they are reacting to data. It's that they are not reacting to data - and seem to have to be pushed to act.

Really, we need to stop giving them the benefit of the doubt.

They are not acting competently.

If you look at the number of cases per 100,000 the only place outside the SE (and not on the list of places where all schools will remain closed) with more than 800 cases per 100,000 are Brampton & Irthing an Penrith Outer (Both Cumbria), Brierfield & Reedley (Burnley), Yapton & Climping (Arun) and Denmead & Southwick (Portsmouth).

I would be nervous in any of these areas sending my son back to school.

I personally think that if you make this a firm cut off point, it would at least give some certainity and sense of consistency.

There are not many other places at the upper end of the 400 - 800 category (and those that are are in Cumbria, around Hartlepool) at the moment.

If T4 is to work with schools open then it shouldn't be a problem and we won't need to put other places into T4+ and shut the schools, so this cut off point is very reasonable... However if T4 with schools open doesn't work then those numbers are going to increase and we shouldn't be reopening them...

Actual link for school closures for two weeks:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/551740

Oh ffs I can’t keep up... it looks like the petition has been changed to:

Suspend fines for school non-attendance during Covid-19 & allow parental choice
The government must remove the threat of fines and further action and allow parental choice based on individual circumstances. Currently a blanket policy applies regardless of individual family risk levels from Covid-19 (for example to those who are clinically vulnerable or single parent families).

Some tier 3 areas have higher or ever so slightly lower rates than tier 4 areas
Also tier 3 and newly tier 4 were all permitted to mix over xmas.
Chris whitty said tier 2 and 3 can no longer contain the virus from growing hence why they invented tier 4 and probably add tier 5 anything other than calling a national lockdown.