I fucking knew it. Second vaccine dose.

[NiceGerbil]

News is that people who have had first dose are only getting second 3 months later. Against the guidelines of the org who made the vaccine.

I said this rush to push it out would result in, how are they going to follow up and make sure they get the second?

And here we go. Second dose not organised. UK govt say this is AOK.

FFS. I'd rather they took the time to do it properly. But hey. Pissup in a brewery situation again.

I said a few days ago to DH. Are they properly tracking this to make sure the follow up jab isn't missed?

I was too optimistic. Govt have decided second jab isn't that important.

FFS.

Well, my theory on his level of invisibility was blown out of the water in one post!

But I haven't noticed much (well, anything) from him in recent days, and I would have expected him to be showing a bit of a grip.

@AllPowerfulLizardPerson

Well, my theory on his level of invisibility was blown out of the water in one post!

But I haven't noticed much (well, anything) from him in recent days, and I would have expected him to be showing a bit of a grip.

In fairness im a politics nerd and that was a lucky guess based on me thinking id vaguely heard it. But i am betting not many other people would get it (i did check after posting out of curiosity)

I remember thinking who? when it was announced and I still don't recognise his name. He hasn't been in any briefings or interviews, has he?

I knew who it was, but only because he happened to have been on Question Time the week before it was announced. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have remembered.

@Oaktree55

There’s so many comments here that aren’t based on facts. There is NO data relating to 3 months gap for Pfizer dosing (and v scant for vulnerable for Oxford).

NOBODY can purport to know what’ll happen if Pfizer trial data is departed from. We have no idea how delaying the second dose affects immunity. It’s a gamble. We are gambling.

It may work out equally (as many virologists have cautioned) it could lead to lesser protection and possible disastrous vaccine escape through partial protection.

Another one to chalk up from the “amazing” U.K. Pandemic Response!!

Thank you for this sanity. I can't keep reading all these fanciful, hopeful, rationalising posts, full of bad maths, about how this is probably a good idea to go against the Pfizer dosing schedule and existing data.

It makes me so cross the majority don’t read up enough to realise how incompetent our Government are. Other countries are aghast at how off piste we’re going. Other less developed countries are rolling out Pfizer better. Israel over 130 k a day for example!

I have been aghast since March at the way the UK has 'responded' to the pandemic. I feel I am shouting into a snowstorm. And as if I am watching a poorly made horror movie, and the villain is in clear sight and hardly anyone is even glancing around. I am so, so sorry for you all.

@cbt944 - am assuming you’re also aghast at most other countries in Europe, at the USA etc? Because I don’t think we’re doing hugely differently to them

Can’t compare with places like Australia and New Zealand, really not comparable.

Places like S Korea etc definitely more geared up following SARS.

Then China, for example, where incredibly strict measures are not going to be questioned.

Yes, some decisions have been too late/too early/too hard/too soft etc etc. But if your voice in a snowstorm was to be heard, exactly where on this planet would you want to be in said snowstorm? And why?

And I wish people would stop with the sentiments along the lines of “I feel sorry for you”. If you have amazing insight to share, then share it - rather than just casting a very wide net as an undisguised way of saying your summary of the whole situation is an enlightened one. If someone post with robust information, I take the time to read it and challenge my own views - but when someone just posts “I feel sorry for you all (ie, I know the truth and you’re all brainwashed) then it makes me, and probably many others, switch off.

My feel is that again it's all showmanship over sense.

It's all. We've bought the most vaccines. We've approved them first. We're going to get the most vaccinated first. Etc etc

Where's the planning? And have they even thought about the message they're giving?

People have it drilled into the them. With medicines and vaccines. Finish the course. Follow the instructions. Get the jabs at this age and that age. Make sure it's recorded carefully in the child's red book. When was your last tetanus etc etc

Now we are in a situation where there is a global crisis. Efforts to find vaccines have been huge. The whole world is in an unprecedented situation. And as anti vaxx people are very active (we see it on MN). Sowing seeds of doubt.

Then the government says oh yeah we'll just ignore the manufacturer's instructions. The conditions under which it was tested and we approved it. Yeah sod that. Let's randomly do something else!

From a psychological perspective. They've just told the whole nation. The instructions don't matter. One dose is probably fine! Better than nothing. Just, well. Whatever.

It was a really stupid and totally predictable move as they were desperate to win some kind of race they have in their heads and the logistics weren't in place.

I expect all the people already vaccinated will end up having 2 of a different jab at a later date.

I really hope they aren't going to do the second jab in 3 months with a cheaper, easier to store vaccine. And say yep you've had your 2.

Who knows though...

@cbt944 - am assuming you’re also aghast at most other countries in Europe, at the USA etc? Because I don’t think we’re doing hugely differently to them.

USA, led by Trump - not surprising, but they are in a terrible situation.

And I wish people would stop with the sentiments along the lines of “I feel sorry for you”. If you have amazing insight to share, then share it - rather than just casting a very wide net as an undisguised way of saying your summary of the whole situation is an enlightened one. If someone post with robust information, I take the time to read it and challenge my own views - but when someone just posts “I feel sorry for you all (ie, I know the truth and you’re all brainwashed) then it makes me, and probably many others, switch off.

I find it hard to imagine how much more many MNetters could possibly 'switch off' with regards to this pandemic, so that's hardly a problem. But the expression of emotion was sincere. I feel deeply sorry for your plight and for your people's wilful ignorance, minimising, downplaying, and outright denial, and what lies ahead in the next weeks and months.

[quote cbt944]**@cbt944 - am assuming you’re also aghast at most other countries in Europe, at the USA etc? Because I don’t think we’re doing hugely differently to them.

USA, led by Trump - not surprising, but they are in a terrible situation.

And I wish people would stop with the sentiments along the lines of “I feel sorry for you”. If you have amazing insight to share, then share it - rather than just casting a very wide net as an undisguised way of saying your summary of the whole situation is an enlightened one. If someone post with robust information, I take the time to read it and challenge my own views - but when someone just posts “I feel sorry for you all (ie, I know the truth and you’re all brainwashed) then it makes me, and probably many others, switch off.

I find it hard to imagine how much more many MNetters could possibly 'switch off' with regards to this pandemic, so that's hardly a problem. But the expression of emotion was sincere. I feel deeply sorry for your plight and for your people's wilful ignorance, minimising, downplaying, and outright denial, and what lies ahead in the next weeks and months.[/quote]
So, UK led by Boris and US led by Trump. Both on opposing sides of the political agenda. So which approach is wrong/surprising/ etc..

And, whilst it’s nice that you are “sincere” and that you are deeply sorry for “our” plight, you haven’t answered my question. Where in the world would you like this snowstorm to be that you’re shouting into? Where has got it completely right? And it’s weird how you refer to “your people”. If you’re not in the UK then where are you and how is it going where you are?

Oh. From another thread.

They have already said they will mix vaccines.

For fucking fucks sake.

www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html

Where I am, it is going comparatively well. Mistakes have been made, and will continue to be made, some costly for lives and just plain stupid, and some just down to the changing nature of the understanding of this virus.

Where I am, we get mostly news of the UK, and the USA, regarding Covid and then anything particularly horrible in say Brazil; or when Sweden was all the rage, the differing views from Sweden re their approach and then the latest developments there as things began to unravel there, etc. Obviously other countries are covered, but because the States and the UK are doing so poorly (and I am not saying this to offend) that is generally the main and recurring focus of our print and digital and televised updates.

I read a lot on the topic. I feel like I can't look away. It is doing my head in reading all the denial and minimisation here - and I keep piping up to no or little avail. From where I am, the UK is a horror story. The States more so, but then this is a mostly UK centric forum.

@cbt944 what about italy and belgium who are faring worse than the uk ?
I

We have vaccination hub ready to go in my small town , people think just because they don't know if one its not all happening behind the scenes

@cbt944 also where are you from find a lot of posters who will say how bad uk has done compared to them but don't actually state where they are from ,

@jasjas1973 how have we known about a vaccine since may they have only just been approved , we had know way of knowing in may of a vaccine would be 2/3 years away
In my local town places have been prepared for vaccine rollout just because you haven't seen them or aren't aware doesn't mean it won't be happening behind the scenes
Look how quick testing stations were up once ramped out and we had the tests

I can’t believe even now vaccines are available, they’re somehow messing this part up. But I guess based on the government’s record so far, it was to be expected. It just feels quite hopeless that they can’t manage to do anything properly.

@cbt944

Where I am, it is going comparatively well. Mistakes have been made, and will continue to be made, some costly for lives and just plain stupid, and some just down to the changing nature of the understanding of this virus.

Where I am, we get mostly news of the UK, and the USA, regarding Covid and then anything particularly horrible in say Brazil; or when Sweden was all the rage, the differing views from Sweden re their approach and then the latest developments there as things began to unravel there, etc. Obviously other countries are covered, but because the States and the UK are doing so poorly (and I am not saying this to offend) that is generally the main and recurring focus of our print and digital and televised updates.

I read a lot on the topic. I feel like I can't look away. It is doing my head in reading all the denial and minimisation here - and I keep piping up to no or little avail. From where I am, the UK is a horror story. The States more so, but then this is a mostly UK centric forum.

Where are you from - don’t think that will out you. And you’re still not answering my question. Where in the world do you want your shouts in a snowstorm to be heard from?

I have been polite. I have been genuine. You are still (weirdly) offended and defensive, and frankly offensive.

God help you all, this winter. That's all.

I’m an expat and had scorn heaped upon me by other Brits when I said the early vaccine approval smelled political to me and was not in itself an indication that the rollout targets would be met. My friends said they even were considering flying back to the UK for the jabs because they’ll be “back to normal” by springtime. I laughed.

Less than one month later we now have a situation where the NHS cannot deliver 2 doses on schedule and is allowing for patients to receive inoculations from different vaccines, against the manufacturers’ recommendations and with no evidence of how effective it will be.

The government has failed miserably and thought getting the vaccine first would be enough to paper over the cracks.

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@cbt944 also where are you from find a lot of posters who will say how bad uk has done compared to them but don't actually state where they are from , [/quote]
Yes, that's typical MN, and not just this topic.

Lots of posters going on about how things are going so well 'in my country' but get all coy when asked what this wonderful amazing country is.

It's kind of like mocking how someone looks in a photo but refusing to have your own photo taken. Even the smallest countries have at least a few million inhabitants, so it's not like they'd be 'outed' by revealing the name of their perfect country.

I’m an expat and had scorn heaped upon me by other Brits when I said the early vaccine approval smelled political to me and was not in itself an indication that the rollout targets would be met. My friends said they even were considering flying back to the UK for the jabs because they’ll be “back to normal” by springtime. I laughed.

What country are you living in? How's the vaccine roll-out going there?

Thank you for starting this thread, op. It's the first time I've seen anybody on MN intelligently criticising anything to do with the government's handling of this pandemic (though to be fair I tend to avoid the coronavirus threads). There are many sources of information other than the main stream media, which by and large simply repeat uncritically what the government says. Some are bonkers of course, microchips etc. and some are factual, based on actual data and peer reviewed in prestigious scientific journals.

@cbt944

Where I am, it is going comparatively well. Mistakes have been made, and will continue to be made, some costly for lives and just plain stupid, and some just down to the changing nature of the understanding of this virus.

Where I am, we get mostly news of the UK, and the USA, regarding Covid and then anything particularly horrible in say Brazil; or when Sweden was all the rage, the differing views from Sweden re their approach and then the latest developments there as things began to unravel there, etc. Obviously other countries are covered, but because the States and the UK are doing so poorly (and I am not saying this to offend) that is generally the main and recurring focus of our print and digital and televised updates.

I read a lot on the topic. I feel like I can't look away. It is doing my head in reading all the denial and minimisation here - and I keep piping up to no or little avail. From where I am, the UK is a horror story. The States more so, but then this is a mostly UK centric forum.

Thanks for this. Yes people do seem overly interested in watching from afar.

We know our situation.

@IcedPurple I’m in Asia, not China (more specific would be outing). Vaccines arriving in next month or two. We don’t have an overwhelmed healthcare system or uncontrolled outbreak so it’s not as urgent.

Sandy Douglas, vaccine researcher at Oxford:

This issue is, appropriately, contentious. As a vaccinologist - & citizen & relative of people in at-risk groups - I fully support the UK decision to increase dose intervals of both our Ox/AZ product and the Pfizer product. I'd happily receive either with a >8w gap. Here's why
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1344949258483621888.html