I fucking knew it. Second vaccine dose.

[NiceGerbil]

News is that people who have had first dose are only getting second 3 months later. Against the guidelines of the org who made the vaccine.

I said this rush to push it out would result in, how are they going to follow up and make sure they get the second?

And here we go. Second dose not organised. UK govt say this is AOK.

FFS. I'd rather they took the time to do it properly. But hey. Pissup in a brewery situation again.

I said a few days ago to DH. Are they properly tracking this to make sure the follow up jab isn't missed?

I was too optimistic. Govt have decided second jab isn't that important.

FFS.

@Crazycatlady83

I thought the Oxford vaccine showed 100% efficiency in preventing serious illness (i.e no hospitalisations) We don’t need to completely prevent or eradicate the illness (which we are repeatedly told won’t happen anyway) so herd immunity is a completely moot point. The point is it will prevent people getting seriously illness and dying - surely that’s a great aim (and then we can go for eradication in the longer term)

This is what I understood too

And hugely needed atm

@Crazycatlady83 it techno does but when you look at the details of that subgroup they are light on elderly/minorities. The mRNA trials were heavily weighted towards elderly/minorities.

[quote Oaktree55]@cathyandclare Israel is doing it with 21 day dosing. Excluding demographics (they’re still on elderly). UAE is too.[/quote]
That doesn't in any way contradict my comment.

Is that link supposed to prove your assertion regarding the Oxford vaccine not leading to herd immunity? Because it doesn’t suggest anything of the sort.

Besides which, even if it did say what you think it does (it doesn’t) there is a massive disclaimer at the start. “This article is a pre-print and has not been peer-reviewed. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.”

Technically

If you have a trial group weighted towards younger white people then it’s likely to see less severe disease isn’t it. That’s the criticism.

^^THIS

@cathyandclare why as a leading wealthy country can we not manage it?????

Too slow! Was referring to @ChloeCrocodile 's post.

@ChloeCrocodile don’t have to have but there’s lots of modelling showing vaccine efficacy R rate and required take up to achieve herd immunity.

Oaktree was derailing the data thread in the same way

The new variant obviously pushes up the required % required to be vaccinated

@Oaktree55 but stage 2 trials included over 65 and had the same findings?

@DuncinToffee just stating facts

[quote Oaktree55]@cathyandclare why as a leading wealthy country can we not manage it?????[/quote]
I pointed out that efficacy and effectiveness are different. We have yet to see the real world results of the vaccine and its fragility may affect this. I believe you are wrong to dismiss as unimportant the stability and cheapness of Oxford.

@Crazycatlady83 yes that had some but apparently not really enough certainly not enough in the subgroup

[quote Oaktree55]@DuncinToffee just stating facts[/quote]
Twisting facts and referencing irrelevant papers to support said facts

@cathyandclare I understand your point of we were a developing country but we’re not. It shouldn’t be beyond our capabilities to roll out.

Why were the trials designed in a way that was light on over 65?

@cathyandclare not at all. The new variant and its increased transmissibility means the Oxford Vaccine even if 100% take up won’t lead to herd immunity.

[quote Oaktree55]@cathyandclare not at all. The new variant and its increased transmissibility means the Oxford Vaccine even if 100% take up won’t lead to herd immunity.[/quote]
Would Pfizer lead to it?

@MarshaBradyo because the data they’re relying on for Oxford came from an accidental subgroup (again). The dosing delay was a result of the trial being halted for the Transverse Myelitis case meaning the participants got their second dose late.

@MarshaBradyo I’m not sure I only read about Oxford.

Why were the trials designed in a way that was light on over 65?

Because when testing an experimental medicine you tend to want to trial it with people who will be more resilient to potential side-effects. So you pick youngish adult volunteers, with no underlying health conditions.

Surely at the moment in the UK this is academic because the vaccination rate is too slow. They can free up extra doses for new patients by not giving out the second doses but with one vaccination centre per town, with one day per surgery etc, it is going to take actual years to vaccinate even those people on the priority list.

The AZ Oxford vaccine is ready to be rolled out on Monday. How is the mass vaccination of a vaccine that is relatively easy to transport going to happen. The set-up currently in place for the fragile Pfizer vaccination is far too small for mass vaccination of the priority list.

I thought there were going to be huge vaccination centres, or vaccinations in pharmacies, drive-through vaccination centres. But I worry that is all in our imaginations and all that is in place is the tiny-scale GP centre system that is currently not meeting the targets for the Pfizer vaccination, let alone the AZ Oxford one.

Please tell me that someone is working on this. I have relatives in the NHS who have volunteered to administer the vaccinations but no-one is getting call up to do this, so I guess there is no mass/rapid vaccination plan in place. I have also volunteered as a non-medical helper, also not needed due to the small-scale of the vaccination scheme currently underway.

What is going to happen on Monday with the new vaccine that is different to the existing vaccine?

I think what’s thrown a spanner in works is the new variant and how much more transmissible it is.