I fucking knew it. Second vaccine dose.

[NiceGerbil]

News is that people who have had first dose are only getting second 3 months later. Against the guidelines of the org who made the vaccine.

I said this rush to push it out would result in, how are they going to follow up and make sure they get the second?

And here we go. Second dose not organised. UK govt say this is AOK.

FFS. I'd rather they took the time to do it properly. But hey. Pissup in a brewery situation again.

I said a few days ago to DH. Are they properly tracking this to make sure the follow up jab isn't missed?

I was too optimistic. Govt have decided second jab isn't that important.

FFS.

Worth remembering that the Oxford vaccine was modelled over the course of a single weekend after receiving the profile of the vaccine from China.

They were able to do this from research they had previously done in the field.

They then made the vaccination and trialled it to see if this modelling actually worked.

And it has. To a level better than they dared hope.

So the idea that we have no knowledge at all isn't true. We have enough background info to made educated guesses.

We might find big problems but the problems we already have are gigantic....

The Americans are not doing this and their numbers are as dire as ours.

According to Dr Fauci, the US is considering it.

@RedToothBrush Oxford is still a poor relation vaccine. Yes yes it’s cheap and stores well 🙄

The Americans are not doing this and their numbers are as dire as ours.

They can't even get the 1 dose out anywhere near their plan.

Do you really think they have the capacity to give the 2nd dose on time, plus vaccinate 1st dose.

Thats even without the supply issues.........

@JassyRadlett

The Americans are not doing this and their numbers are as dire as ours.

According to Dr Fauci, the US is considering it.

One word.

Trump.

Things may well change come the 20th Jan.

Also the EU only started roll out on Sunday. They have been slower off the mark. Again things may change...

[quote Oaktree55]@RedToothBrush Oxford is still a poor relation vaccine. Yes yes it’s cheap and stores well 🙄[/quote]
Whatever.

Best not use it at all then by your logic.

@Wakeupin2022
I don't like the Us particularly but these type of statements I think are unfair.
Please consider their geographical size and that there are 332 million people.

I don't think we should be using the US as a reference for how best to approach anything tbh.

Yes yes it’s cheap and stores well

And is incredibly effective in preventing severe disease, which seems slightly relevant given current circumstances.

@RedToothBrush when oh when will people demand accountability. The new variant means that T4 combined with 2 vaccinated a week won’t be enough to stop healthcare becoming overwhelmed.

Oxford isn’t enough to obtain herd immunity through vaccination even if 100% take up

Oxford for elderly/vulnerable is shaky the data isn’t robust.

2million

@JassyRadlett the robustness of the data relating to old/vulnerable is shaky. Yes in younger cohorts but that’s not our issue so much is it.

It was always going to be a cock up. It's become almost like the government is a perpetual Ealing Comedy, of utter farce.

@Oaktree55 you're completely wrong and it's irresponsible of you to post like that. I've reported but not sure if it's actually against the talk guidelines to perpetuate inaccuracies

Oxford is still a poor relation vaccine.

Why? The effectiveness is lower, but we can’t know how much of that is due to the fact that the Oxford trial swabbed regularly to pick up asymptomatic cases when the Pfizer one only tested symptomatic people.

[quote Oaktree55]@RedToothBrush Oxford is still a poor relation vaccine. Yes yes it’s cheap and stores well 🙄[/quote]
This comment shows a genuine lack of understanding and insight into the challenges of getting the Pfizer vaccine out. Efficacy in a clinical trial and effectiveness in practice can be totally different. Being easy to store and deliver is incredibly important. GP colleagues report that the logistical difficulties with the Pfizer vaccine have made it so time consuming that it is impossible for them to carry out normal care at the same time.

Oxford isn’t enough to obtain herd immunity through vaccination even if 100% take up

That isn’t true.

Frankly there is no proof that two doses of Pfizer 21 days apart gives long term protection. This is an assumption as the trial does not have data for longer than 6 months. All they can say is that it gives as much protection for as long as they have tested for.

This is exactly the same situation as for giving the doses with a longer delay. It is reasonable to assume it makes no difference to those vaccinated but allows us to save more lives by vaccinating more vulnerable people earlier.

@kurtrussellsbeard I’ve said nothing that is wrong. It’s all factually correct. This decision has been made without data. As for the Oxford data the decision was made on data which was light on elderly/minorities.

@ChloeCrocodile
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.13.20248142v1

@ChloeCrocodile at 60-70% efficacy that’s not high enough to provide herd immunity I’m afraid even with 100% take up

@cathyandclare Israel is doing it with 21 day dosing. Excluding demographics (they’re still on elderly). UAE is too.

I thought the Oxford vaccine showed 100% efficiency in preventing serious illness (i.e no hospitalisations) We don’t need to completely prevent or eradicate the illness (which we are repeatedly told won’t happen anyway) so herd immunity is a completely moot point. The point is it will prevent people getting seriously illness and dying - surely that’s a great aim (and then we can go for eradication in the longer term)

^I don't like the Us particularly but these type of statements I think are unfair.
Please consider their geographical size and that there are 332 million people.^

I don't see why its an unfair statement.

Fact is they have not met their targets. That's not a criticism, but it is what it is.

Everyone wants their own parents to have two injections. But ... that’s not possible yet

And yet only 4 weeks ago the indication was that it would be - not immediately perhaps, but nevertheless we were told it would be on its way by spring

For me it's the constant changes and the pulling the latest story out of nowhere which are the nub of the problem. As said it's a volatile situation, but with some of it they either didn't check before speaking, which is incompetence, or they knew anyway and lied, which is even worse

It's getting to the point where there's no trust left, and that's really not helping anyone