I fucking knew it. Second vaccine dose.

[NiceGerbil]

News is that people who have had first dose are only getting second 3 months later. Against the guidelines of the org who made the vaccine.

I said this rush to push it out would result in, how are they going to follow up and make sure they get the second?

And here we go. Second dose not organised. UK govt say this is AOK.

FFS. I'd rather they took the time to do it properly. But hey. Pissup in a brewery situation again.

I said a few days ago to DH. Are they properly tracking this to make sure the follow up jab isn't missed?

I was too optimistic. Govt have decided second jab isn't that important.

FFS.

My husband had the first dose, he's vulnerable NHS frontline. He wouldn't have consented to have it in a way not agreed by the manufacturer.

He is going to request to be redeployed to a role without patient contact as he's been at risk long enough. There is no way to know how effective his vaccine will be longer term after only one dose.

I don’t know why everyone is so het up about Pfizer not testing on a 12 week gap. That would have added nine weeks to all the tests - it still wouldn’t be close to being approved. That’s got to be at least one reason why it was a three week gap!

They are choosing not to follow the manufacturer's recommendation but that's the state's choice. People were misled.

But everyone is behaving as if these tests were being done with bag loads of time at their disposal. Yes, of course everyone wants their own parents to have two injections. But... that’s not possible yet.

@YouokHun - I hope your DF gets his doses soon - thank you all for being patient and kind despite the fear and stress you must all feel.

Apart from anything else, when people phone up to ask about vaccination it means that patients wanting appointments are finding it hard to get through, compounding existing problems! Receptionists are getting the worst of it.

It's really disappointing to see posts like the OP's.
More people will get the vaccine faster. The 5% or so added protection boost for longevity will be given within 12 weeks.
We're one of a few countries who even have a vaccine. Your glass is definitely half empty OP.

@DianaT1969 that’s really unfair comment. There is no data supporting delaying the Pfizer dose supports longer term immunity. It may have opposite effects we don’t know. That’s the whole point. As for the Oxford data it’s flimsy for older/at risk.

The whole reason the U.K. is normally so adamant we stick to trials is because they give data. They’ve departed from that. India is doing well giving people Ivermectin, we won’t do that here due to lack of data, yet seemingly we can do it with a vaccine ?!?!

We’ve mixed politics and science unfortunately as our backs against the wall. Nobody seems to care much despite other countries doing better.

Had mine this morning, 2nd dose in 12 weeks.

The way the doc explained to me was it is better to have 10000 people given 70% protection than 5000 given 90 odd % protection.

I’m just grateful to have had it

@DianaT1969

It's really disappointing to see posts like the OP's. More people will get the vaccine faster. The 5% or so added protection boost for longevity will be given within 12 weeks. We're one of a few countries who even have a vaccine. Your glass is definitely half empty OP.

Peeps are posting without finding out the facts. There are several links on here to choose from. Including the one I posted from the Chief Medical Officers:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/letter-to-the-profession-from-the-uk-chief-medical-officers-on-the-uk-covid-19-vaccination-programmes/letter-to-the-profession-from-the-uk-chief-medical-officers-regarding-the-uk-covid-19-vaccination-programmes

We have to ensure that we maximise the number of eligible people who receive the vaccine. Currently the main barrier to this is vaccine availability, a global issue, and this will remain the case for several months and, importantly, through the critical winter period. The availability of the AZ vaccine reduces, but does not remove, this major problem. Vaccine shortage is a reality that cannot be wished away.

We are confident that based on publicly available data as well as data available to the JCVI, the statutory independent body, that the first dose of either Pfizer or AZ vaccine provides substantial protection within 2-3 weeks of vaccination for clinical disease, and in particular severe COVID disease. The JCVI has issued a new evidence statement today.

The second vaccine dose is likely to be very important for duration of protection, and at an appropriate dose interval may further increase vaccine efficacy. In the short term, the additional increase of vaccine efficacy from the second dose is likely to be modest; the great majority of the initial protection from clinical disease is after the first dose of vaccine.

In terms of protecting priority groups, a model where we can vaccinate twice the number of people in the next 2 to 3 months is obviously much more preferable in public health terms than one where we vaccinate half the number but with only slightly greater protection.
This is why the JCVI has recommended that first doses of vaccine are prioritised for as many people as possible on the Phase 1 JCVI priority list, in advance of second doses which will subsequently provide more assured longer-term protection. It is a classic public health approach centred on doing as much good for as many people in the shortest possible timeframe, within the available vaccine supplies, against a background of immediate disease activity and still high population sero-susceptibility (despite the disease burden seen).
The JCVI is confident 12 weeks is a reasonable dosing interval to achieve good longer-term protection.

@Nosig unfortunately your dr is making assumptions. We don’t know if the delayed dosing gives 70% as it’s not been trialled. It’s an assumption.

@Sertchgi123 it’s an assumption they’re making. There’s no data. Normally in the U.K. we don’t make decisions without data.

[quote Oaktree55]@Sertchgi123 it’s an assumption they’re making. There’s no data. Normally in the U.K. we don’t make decisions without data.[/quote]
We are confident that based on publicly available data as well as data available to the JCVI, the statutory independent body, that the first dose of either Pfizer or AZ vaccine provides substantial protection within 2-3 weeks of vaccination for clinical disease, and in particular severe COVID disease. The JCVI has issued a new evidence statement today.

There is no data supporting delaying the Pfizer dose supports longer term immunity.

That is true for this particular vaccine - the emergency nature of the situation means that we don’t know everything we would like to know. However, we do know that for vaccines generally the protection doesn’t decline much over the short term and there is no reason to believe that the immune response to this vaccine is unusual. It is a risk, but a calculated one. Weighed up against full hospitals and no protection for huge numbers of very vulnerable people.

They have no evidence for Pfizer. Pfizer have public ally distanced themselves from the decision as there’s NO DATA

It’s a leap of faith as we’re desperate

@Oaktree55

They have no evidence for Pfizer. Pfizer have public ally distanced themselves from the decision as there’s NO DATA

It’s a leap of faith as we’re desperate

We are confident that based on publicly available data as well as data available to the JCVI, the statutory independent body, that the first dose of either Pfizer or AZ vaccine provides substantial protection within 2-3 weeks of vaccination for clinical disease, and in particular severe COVID disease. The JCVI has issued a new evidence statement today.

I would recommend that we believe the Chief Medical Officers, rather than a random poster on Mumsnet.

apple.news/AlleA7CreShyFg53CWou2EA

Sorry I meant to comment that that link is to an interview with Professor Anthony Harnden the Deputy Chair of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation.

Thanks @SchnitzelVonCrummsTum I think we really are all in this together and need to think laterally about the greater good, but I don’t mind admitting it’s really hard to keep on track with that when you’re panicking about someone’s health, but we must think like that. The other day someone said to me that it’s quite selfish of my DF to take up the vaccine when it’s offered when he is likely to die anyway in weeks or months which is hurtful to a man who has contributed to the system via tax and national insurance for decades (as have many elderly who some consider expendable) and through his expertise as a former NHS doctor. The only way to do this is to vaccinate the people at the front line and the CEV of all ages. No queue jumping behaviour, bullying surgery staff and no unequal value placed on individuals because they are old and/or vulnerable.

@Sertchgi123b it’s a huge departure from how the U.K. operates. The constant dialogue from CMO is gold standard of RCT’s. There is no denying this is a leap of faith because our back is against the wall. A leap of faith other countries are avoiding.

There’s very few people who seem angry at the disaster to disaster we lurch from with our Government it’s literally never ending. It’s as though people are brainwashed, they keep making excuses or believing the next unobtainable promise.

It’s absolutely shocking where we are and the next vaccine disaster is unfolding yet people seem totally forgiving.

[quote Oaktree55]@Sertchgi123 it’s an assumption they’re making. There’s no data. Normally in the U.K. we don’t make decisions without data.[/quote]
What are the long term effects of any of the covid vaccines?

Anyone?

Why are will still going to roll out a national programme in the absence of this data?

Two things here: the seriousness of the situation and evidence from similar vaccinations and the most up to date modelling.

Also absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

There is a certain amount of 'educated guesswork' going on in all aspects of these covid vaccines no matter how much we insist on clinging to data. Thats not a total vacuum of a lack of evidence. Its applying what we know about other things to what we do know about covid.

We don't have the luxury of time to collect data in the way in which we normally have.

This, however, does not automatically mean something is unsafe either. And what is best in difficult circumstances.

Just the best option we have available at the time we must make critical decisions.

Many countries are currently considering it though.

www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/health/147286/coronavirus-belgium-considers-single-dose-vaccination-strategy-pierre-van-damme-group-immunity-vaccine/

www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/12/31/fauci-says-us-considering-allowing-more-americans-to-get-first-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-with-amended-approach/

@RedToothBrush that’s a ridiculous argument. It’s not normal to make decisions outside of data from trials.

Again more excuses for incompetence.

@ChloeCrocodile

Why should care home residents have to wait an extra 9 weeks for a social distanced still masked visit with relatives.

To protect other people. Hundreds of thousands have been unable to attend funerals, unable to access appropriate cancer or maternity care. My own sister was really ill with severe PND and couldn’t access support until she turned up at A&E. Many more are facing poverty as their employers cut staff or close entirely. It’s really shit for everyone.

It is really horrible for a lot of people who felt like the end was in sight and that’s now been pushed back by 9 weeks. But please don’t start thinking that those who agree with the new vaccine plan are doing it because we want to be allowed to go out socialising. For me, is because both my grandparents have had one dose and are reasonably protected and I want that for everyone else’s vulnerable loved ones too. It is because hospitals in my area are currently coping and I want that to last for here and for everywhere else in the country.

Excellent post