If this doesn’t make you think twice about breaking COVID rules....

[Strawberrycreamsundae]

Then nothing will......🤬😡
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55479018

@itsgettingweird

Yep. I have a classroom about double the size of my living room and there’s often 37/38 of us in there, including 36 teenagers (some over 6 foot tall) as well as me and the TA.
In any other situation this would be seen as reckless, disgusting and akin with having blood on my hands. Because of my job it’s seen as necessary and my risk is for the greater good.
I just hope this risk one day doesn’t come back to bite me personally on the ass.

Maybe I have misunderstood what is meant by "showing the reality inside ICU wards" but I think it is putting patients first by not filming them under such circumstances when they are no position to give consent.

But like I say, perhaps I have misunderstood.

"The average age of COVID mortality is a little over 80, so his suggestions that most hospitalizations are people under 58 "

Oh dear. Mortality and hospitalisation is not the same thing.

Guns dont kill people, rappers do.

Or this guy

The virus isnt killing people, people are

@lljkk

I thought his comments were very hyperbolic. I had to switch station because my ire started to rise when he started ranting.

He basically implied that everyone who caught C19 was either a totally innocent victim or a desperately bad selfish person. No inbetween. Nobody understandably struggling with horrible decisions.

So yeah, his comments make me think twice -- but in opposite way OP wanted. I am sorry the man is stressed out but his guilt-mongering still backfires with me.

Wouldn't surprise me if someone comes forward to say the guy himself has not followed every rule perfectly since February. He's set himself up for it.

Totally agree

"Whole families getting wiped out, including children". Really? The data doesn't bear that out!

"And this. Really unethical and stupid thing for a doctor to say!"

He didn't say anything about disabled people who can't wear a mask.

@singingstones

Well, here we have a professor of medicine, specialist in intensive care, telling us what the situation is like at his hospital in London to try and get people to understand the consequences of breaking the rules.

MN response: "seems a bit like rhetoric to me" / "I don't think I believe the claim" / "scaremongering" / "hyperbolic"

Amazing - who would you lot believe?

This. ^

The reaction to his comments are shocking. Even if you think he was over-emotional in his delivery, surely you can concede that what he's actually witnessing every minute of every day in ICU puts him in a far better position to tell us how awful things are at the moment?

The idea that people think a doctor imploring people to stay at home and follow the rules because his patients are dying in their droves is scaremongering is astonishing. Give your heads a wobble!

@herecomesthsun

Another doctor here.

Apparently
"Senior clinicians in multiple hospitals tell [her] they are desperate to show the reality inside our ICUs, wards and EDs. They aren't allowed to. All comms have been centralised.

... [She knows] this to be true at a Trust level too. CEOs who want to show the truth and can't.

...Meanwhile frontline staff like [her] risk our jobs, potentially, to try and warn the public to stay home, keep their distance, believe the gravity of the situation.

...That can't be right, can it? Where is the transparency and leadership?

... Where is putting patients first??

this has been the truth of working in the NHS for years now. The Francis report etc actually made things worse as people were emboldened to speak up but really just made themselves easier targets to be shot down.

I sent this to my MP in 2018, I don't know where things are with it now minhalexander.com/send-this-letter-to-your-mp-to-help-protect-uk-whistleblowers-2/

You have blood on your hands from these very comments!!!
When you are on the front line and are overwrought, tired and on the point of collapse then you have a right to open your mouth. otherwise SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Seriously? Get a fucking grip.

No wobbling needed, thanks. The entire scientific and medical community worldwide predicted a second winter wave, equal to or worse than the one we had in spring. They were of course correct, and here it is, complete with variants which are more transmissible.

Of course the rules are sensible and we should stick to them, but the 'blood on hands' narrative defies the entire history of virology. The vast majority of people are complying, we're in the height of chest infection season.

@BentBastard

Maybe I have misunderstood what is meant by "showing the reality inside ICU wards" but I think it is putting patients first by not filming them under such circumstances when they are no position to give consent.

But like I say, perhaps I have misunderstood.

"to try and warn the public to stay home, keep their distance, believe the gravity of the situation."

So I should think consent from patients and families would routinely be requested as far as patients are involved.

But it sounds as though there is an attempt to control social media comms from a high level, and not just letting cameras in. (It also sounds as though there are a few doctors who are persevering in writing and talking about what is happening anyway).

That has become more of a thing in recent years. But is a concern if people don't have a clear idea of the severity of the pandemic.

In yesterday's Indie Sage broadcast, a junior doctor, just off night shift, was talking about struggles to support patients who need the most intensive O2 and CPAP input, and switching patients between devices (because they don't have enough). She said this is not how you'd expect to practise medicine in the UK.

Another doctor said that they need contingency planning for when they can't deliver the care that they would normally - there are a lot of ethical dilemmas for them, (a real challenge when they are physically and emotionally exhausted, may not have been able to take leave for extended periods etc).

Indie Sage item from yesterday

The problem here is that the doctor is male, and this is MN.

If it was a female doctor posts would all be supportive with a bunch of twatting flowers at the end.

Whoever from the world of medicine wants to speak out should be allowed to so. Hospitals are critically full and selfish twats will still have NYE gatherings which will only add to the disaster in the coming weeks.

@Whatever9999

Blood on their hands....really

Yes, it's time we stopped sugarcoating reality and say it like it is

@BentBastard

I get and understand he's angry but he's directing it at the wrong people

So you think people breaking the rules and ignoring all guidance have no responsibility whatsoever for the debacle we are in?

What a horrible man.

He's a doctor trying to save lives (no hyperbole - that is literally his job).

I can't fathom the mindset that believes someone is "horrible" because he has spoken harshly about seeing people die unnecessarily.

It’s easy to get wound up by some of the things in this report, but we must remember that this is just the opinion of ONE doctor, reported by the BBC - other doctors may agree with him, and others may say some
of his points are hyperbolic. His message may be well meaning and sensible (ie. don’t meet people at New Year) even if we don’t agree with some of his comments.

My friend is a consultant at a London hospital and has spent time this year in Intensive Care. I asked for her opinion on this. She said hospitals ALWAYS struggle at this time of year. Last year was a bad winter with Flu, but obviously didn’t get nearly the same amount of news coverage. It’s extremely difficult to run hospitals efficiently when illnesses are so seasonal. That doesn’t mean it’s right. It does mean we should cut hysterical doctors a bit of slack - they are often over worked and stressed. However, my friend laughed at some of the comments in the article. Of course, she is just ONE medic too and can’t speak for her colleagues.

They are always busy at this time of year, but currently have a lot fewer beds, because of distancing, fewer staff, because of isolating and illness and the pressure of intense demand for covid. Also, very tired staff from a difficult year.

So it is a bit different this year.

The government broadcasts to the nation, trying to convince us how serious it is, and begging us to stick to rules, complete with experts looking increasingly worried.

So I don't think there's anyone trying to sugarcoat reality. Nor is there a drive to cover up how bad it is. We've been threatened with the worst case scenario since March.

The comments on here are something else
Lots of people are breaking the rules, some to minor degrees some more major.
He is trying to stop people gathering over NYE
ITU capacity in North London ( where the Whittington is) is dire
The hospital I work at have trebled ITU capacity and the staff are on their knees. They are frustrated that some proportion of the population still don't get it.
He is an excellent Dr and will put in all the hours needed and yet people here are saying 'bet he voted Tory' and he is 'a knob'.
He isn't - he may have used the wrong choice of words and been over emotional but if any of you were on ITU I can guarantee you would be quite happy if that 'knob' was your Dr

@Enidblyton1

My friend is a consultant at a London hospital

So does she agree with Prof. Montgomery or not? If she doesn't, what does she specifically not agree with? Is she ok with people breaking the rules?

@herecomesthesun I think you have misunderstood my comment. I cannot find a single reference to "entire families wiped out".
The examples I gave are where a number of people in the same family died. The entire family has not been wiped out.
I am sure there are plenty of family units where the whole family has contracted it, this does not equate to certain death for the lot of them.
Do you not think if entire families were regularly expunged from the face of the earth by COVID, at least one of them would have made the news?
So, by stating that this is happening, when, to date, it does not appear to have done, I immediately start to think other claims in the speech are exagerated.
That some hospitals are currently in a critical state, I don't doubt, but there is no need to embelish by adding in hyperbole.

@Enidblyton1

My friend is a consultant at a London hospital

I don't know what London Hospital your friend is in but this is nothing like the usual increase in ITU patients with seasonal flu. No Drs having anything to do with ITU would be laughing at this currently. They may not use the same choice of words or be as emotional as Hugh Montgomery but as most of us are spending days sorting out redeployment of staff and cancelling leave to manage the worsening situation.

If there is a small pocket of London saved from this then let us know I am sure there are many patients they could take on!

There was a poor chap in Wales who lost his wife and two sons to Covid, that was a few months ago. The sons were adult.

@Missushbb

It's the virus not the victims fault

It's people's fault when they knowingly disregard the guidance and put themselves or others at risk