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Oxford vaccine approved!

218 replies

Rosehip10 · 30/12/2020 07:01

Good news

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-approved-for-use-in-uk-12155958

OP posts:
ihearttc · 30/12/2020 10:07

@Mousehole10
Thank you that’s reassuring. Honestly I’m the last person to make a fuss about my illness, in fact I had to fight my Headteacher to allow me to still work back in March but I’m concerned us school staff are basically sitting ducks at the moment.

viccat · 30/12/2020 10:07

I'm confused about the long gap between 1st and 2nd doses - was that actually tested in the trials? I've seen them say no one got seriously ill within 21 days of receiving the first dose but that's not the same as knowing a 12 week gap is going to give as much protection as the 3-4 weeks gap they planned originally.

My knowledge of vaccinations comes from how they are administered in cats and dogs and the gap in between is very much set in stone - if you miss by just a day or two over with the primary puppy/kitten vaccinations, vets will usually make you re-start from the first jab again.

It feels a bit too much of a convenient coincidence this covid vaccine is suddenly fine to give with a 12 week gap.

PurplePansy05 · 30/12/2020 10:08

@NewLockdownNewMe I don't think you understand. It's primarily about weird recommendation about waiting before TTC and after the vaccine for several months. Jo one as of yet has explained why this is the case and it's an entirely unrealistic requirement for many women.

Re drugs in pregnancy, some are clearly permitted, so somehow trials have been run.

How was the flu jab tested and recommended?

PurplePansy05 · 30/12/2020 10:08

*No one

FurForksSake · 30/12/2020 10:14

They have confirmed the approval is for two full doses, not the half dose and then full dose. Not enough data was available to approve for the regime that has higher efficacy.

I think it is natural to compare the two vaccines and see a 20-30% difference in efficacy and worry a little. But we just accept other vaccines as we aren't that aware of the percentages on those and they do a very good job.

I've just emailed to volunteer at my local vaccine hub. I might apply to be a vaccinator (I am an ex hcp) but they want 20 hours a week and I already work 30 in a school and am recovering from the lingering effects of covid so I'm not sure.

sonicbook · 30/12/2020 10:14

@PurplePansy05 I'm pretty sure someone did explain it.

As new drugs and vaccines are more commonly used many women use them without knowing that they are pregnant. Over time this allows data on safety to be built up. This is exactly what happened with the flu vaccine I believe.

Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum · 30/12/2020 10:17

@CeeJay81

Am I the only one that can't get excited excited about a vaccine that could only be 62% effective. The vulnerable should have the Pfizer one at least.
The annual flu jab is less that 50% effective but still keeps the number of hospital admissions down each year.

Just enjoy a bit of good news for once.

FourTeaFallOut · 30/12/2020 10:20

I might apply to be a vaccinator (I am an ex hcp) but they want 20 hours a week

Does that mean that the 10k recruited vaccinators are all obligated to a minimum of 20 hours? That would be a lot of hours locked in.

CaveMum · 30/12/2020 10:23

@viccat

I'm confused about the long gap between 1st and 2nd doses - was that actually tested in the trials? I've seen them say no one got seriously ill within 21 days of receiving the first dose but that's not the same as knowing a 12 week gap is going to give as much protection as the 3-4 weeks gap they planned originally.

My knowledge of vaccinations comes from how they are administered in cats and dogs and the gap in between is very much set in stone - if you miss by just a day or two over with the primary puppy/kitten vaccinations, vets will usually make you re-start from the first jab again.

It feels a bit too much of a convenient coincidence this covid vaccine is suddenly fine to give with a 12 week gap.

I can’t remember exactly where I read it, but there was a report that said you get the majority of protection from the first jab, the second jab is a top-up/belt and braces approach so I don’t think it is too big a deal to increase the time between jabs.
PurplePansy05 · 30/12/2020 10:24

@sonicbook I've been looking for it and couldn't find a straight answer. The reality is most women who have no time to wait won't adhere to these guidelines, otherwise they will have no choice other than not to have the vaccine.

Not having the vaccine could actually prove more risky for the baby. The consequences of becoming severely ill with a viral illness in pregnancy can be very severe not only to the mother, but also to the baby. In first trimester, high temperatures and certain types of treatment would inevitably contribute to a miscarriage. There's no guarantee a pregnant woman wouldn't get very ill with Covid-19. Throughout the pregnancy, viral infections in general, not just Covid-19, are dangerous and undesirable. There is ongoing research into mothers' immune response to viral infections in pregnancy and links to, for example, autism in children. There is ongoing research into low birth weight which comes with its own issues, and preterm labour.

Some might disagree, but I personally would have the vaccine in pregnancy but have been given no choice. I'd rather have the vaccine than Covid-19 on balance, but that's my personal view.

Thimbleberries · 30/12/2020 10:24

Does anyone know if they've released a protocol that determines who will get which vaccines?

Obviously Oxford vaccine much easier to use in care homes etc, and also better for people with allergies.

But there must be some decision about how they determine which ones will be used, and where, and for which groups, etc. Who carries on getting the initial one in the current clinics? Who gets invited to the new clinics? Do they switch all the over 70s who haven't had a first jab, say, to the new one as it can be done faster, and then start using the Pfizer one on younger people simultaneously? I wonder how it will all be organised. Surely not different areas with different vaccines, and just a post-code decision.

gurglebelly · 30/12/2020 10:29

@PurplePansy05

So how do they get this information if they don't include pregnant women in any trials? They rely on random reports from thise who have discovered they're expecting after the event? This would surely take years and be unreliable.
But how many pregnant women do you think would willingly volunteer to participate in a trial, if there is even a chance of something going wrong? Would you?
CatVsChristmasTree · 30/12/2020 10:31

@viccat

I'm confused about the long gap between 1st and 2nd doses - was that actually tested in the trials? I've seen them say no one got seriously ill within 21 days of receiving the first dose but that's not the same as knowing a 12 week gap is going to give as much protection as the 3-4 weeks gap they planned originally.

My knowledge of vaccinations comes from how they are administered in cats and dogs and the gap in between is very much set in stone - if you miss by just a day or two over with the primary puppy/kitten vaccinations, vets will usually make you re-start from the first jab again.

It feels a bit too much of a convenient coincidence this covid vaccine is suddenly fine to give with a 12 week gap.

Different vaccines have different timings and these are often reviewed and amended. Some you do have to start again after too long a gap, but more often it's that you can't give it sooner, but longer is OK (up to a point). Also different timings in different countries. Eg MMR is 2 years apart on our protocol, but closer together in other countries. HPV vaccine spacing varies quite a lot, as do others.

Most protection is usually after the first dose, with the second being a booster and the difference of 8 weeks or so should not make it less effective (may actually be more effective). I'd be quite happy waiting longer for the 2nd if it means more people vaccinated sooner, as it's about population protection and not the individual.

NewLockdownNewMe · 30/12/2020 10:31

@PurplePansy05 and that’s exactly how they will eventually determine whether it’s safe in and immediately before pregnancy - by women having it knowingly or unknowingly. It’s an individual decision for people to make.

NeurotreeWenceslas · 30/12/2020 10:31

Worth following @bfwendy on twitter and some of the people she's rt or being rt by regarding breastfeeding

CatVsChristmasTree · 30/12/2020 10:35

@Thimbleberries

Does anyone know if they've released a protocol that determines who will get which vaccines?

Obviously Oxford vaccine much easier to use in care homes etc, and also better for people with allergies.

But there must be some decision about how they determine which ones will be used, and where, and for which groups, etc. Who carries on getting the initial one in the current clinics? Who gets invited to the new clinics? Do they switch all the over 70s who haven't had a first jab, say, to the new one as it can be done faster, and then start using the Pfizer one on younger people simultaneously? I wonder how it will all be organised. Surely not different areas with different vaccines, and just a post-code decision.

I think it will be up to the JCVI to advise on that, hopefully we will hear soon. It's going to be complicated though, as plans could only be made on what we knew we had, even though we expected to get Oxford around now. I work in a GP surgery and we are due to begin vaccinating our first priority groups at a central hub in a few weeks time, but could potentially find by then that we have access to the Oxford one and can run our own clinics. I'd imagine we will carry on with the plan and then add on extra clinics ourselves for the next priority group as soon as available (unlikely to actually have them delivered and ready to go before the planned clinics with Pfizer one happen).
Mrgrinch · 30/12/2020 10:38

@Char2015
@Mousehole10
@TheChineseChicken
@FourTeaFallOut
Thank you all! It's very hard to know which news to listen to these days.

Thimbleberries · 30/12/2020 10:39

Thanks, hopefully they will release some more information soon. I know that people complain about how none of the logistics are working fast enough, but I'm actually impressed at how much has been done in a short time with constantly changing ifnromation.

Notthemessiah · 30/12/2020 10:41

Seems like good news but there are a number of things here that are being either downplayed or outright ignored that make me more concerned about this vaccine than the pfizer one.

Firstly, the whole 90% effective rate is still being bandied around when from the news I have seen, we are getting the dosage level that was only 62% effective.

Secondly, we are now getting these two doses 12 weeks apart when what was tested was two doses 4 weeks apart. How have they suddenly decided that this is OK when this was not what was tested (or at least no data has been released for it)?

Thirdly, they seem to be suggesting that one dose gives some protection (presumably substantial given the way they are talking about it) - where is the evidence for that?

It's hard to tell if this is just really poor communication from the government and Oxford Vaccine group (with a new media that seems fairly happy not to look too closely themselves) or that the government is so desperate for a solution to this problem that they are rushing ahead, getting creative with things and hoping for the best.

Anything that is safe (which both vaccines certainly appear to be) and gives any protection is a good thing, but this looks increasingly like a push to persuade everyone that everything will soon be OK and we can all go back to school and work without worrying when the facts don't actually suggest that's the case.

Not only that, it feeds peoples' thinking that they can ignore the current lockdown restrictions as the super-effective vaccines will be here soon, so 'why bother'. Boris' desperate desire to be the bearer of good knews while skirting around inconvenient facts is normally just irritating - here though it's actively dangerous.

CoffeeandCroissant · 30/12/2020 10:43

The second graph on the left shows the protection from the Oxford/AZ vaccine after one Standard (not lower) Dose (the first is the pooled estimate from two)

2nd is discussion from the paper of when people got the second dose.
mobile.twitter.com/nickhassey/status/1344190327222136832

"I'm confused about the long gap between 1st and 2nd doses - was that actually tested in the trials? "

See graphics in above tweet, sounds like it was, but only because of vaccine manufacturing delays!

ineedaholidaynow · 30/12/2020 10:45

Briefing from Downing Street on BBC now

Notthemessiah · 30/12/2020 10:45

@CoffeeandCroissant

The second graph on the left shows the protection from the Oxford/AZ vaccine after one Standard (not lower) Dose (the first is the pooled estimate from two)

2nd is discussion from the paper of when people got the second dose.
mobile.twitter.com/nickhassey/status/1344190327222136832

"I'm confused about the long gap between 1st and 2nd doses - was that actually tested in the trials? "

See graphics in above tweet, sounds like it was, but only because of vaccine manufacturing delays!

The fact that these results, like the half dose thing, seem to have been discovered by accident rather than design does not exactly inspire confidence.
Char2015 · 30/12/2020 10:48

So it was approved yesterday... interesting.

Dongdingdong · 30/12/2020 10:49

You can all say what you like about the UK’s handling of this, but as a nation we’ve done bloody well to get 100 million doses of this vaccine on order. The Washington Post said we’ve been leading the pack as a country.

The only people who won’t like this news are those MN posters who have appeared to relish in scaremongering and spreading doom and gloom throughout the pandemic. With a vaccine being rolled out and the Brexit deal done, what will they have to moan and scaremonger about now?