To think they should be aiming for 1 million vaccines per day

[maddening]

Once the Oxford vaccine is approved, we have purchased 100 million doses, they could have 30 million 1st and 2nd doses complete by the end of Feb. We have 6800 go surgeries, there is talk of the army and football stadiums and sports halls being used. There are over 11000 chemists. And then the news is Sage discussing 1million per week? Wtf? 4 million 1st doses and million 2nd doses - so 4million every 2 months is never enough, surely they can't be seriously aiming for 1m a week?

As I said, the UK already gives out 1 million seasonal flu jabs a week. They dont need established NHS places to give out vaccinations. they need a room somewhere with some slightly trained staff.

Gosh another person who doesn't work in health care who thinks they can do a better job. We are already over worked. Shall I stop sleeping so I can hit your vaccination targets? There always seems to be this idea that there is a surplus amount of health care professionals even though there has been years of reporting that we are understaffed.

And yes you can volunteer! I am expected to volunteer which means that I have to use annual leave or take unpaid leave to help. So at a detrement to my wage I will vaccinating the public. Also that my job will have to be covered whilst I help. I am young and healthy so I have put my hand up rather than my at risk colleagues.

Not sure how it can be achieved, but I think it needs more than 1 million per week, given it is two doses whichever vaccine is used.

User - that was not possible with the Pfizer as has been well documented in the press. This morning's news may change things but it will still be a huge programme that has to be done alongside delivering daily care. In case you hadn't noticed - this is a new vaccine. The vaccine is delicate The protocols are different. In the time it takes to vaccinate one person you could have done several flu vaccinations. That's without reassuring nervous patients about having a new medication. Currently it's the very elderly being vaccinated - they move slower and I refuse to rush them along because a couple of know it alls on Mumsnet think we should be vaccinating a million at a time

@Horehound

They also have to manufacture it remember... It's not just oh we have 4 millions doses ready to go...

It is already manufactured.

The vaccine is delicate The protocols are different. In the time it takes to vaccinate one person you could have done several flu vaccinations.

The AZ one is more “normal”, which will help hugely.

@user1471565182

As I said, the UK already gives out 1 million seasonal flu jabs a week. They dont need established NHS places to give out vaccinations. they need a room somewhere with some slightly trained staff.

Never mind your derision of the government, you sound exactly like a Tory minister. Vacuous sound bites and no fucking idea about implementation.

I'm not a vaccination logistics expert, but that sounds like a lot op.

Get the highest risk groups vaccinated and let the rest of the population make their own judgement about whether they wait for the vaccine or go about their business in the knowledge that they're low risk of serious illness. I'm last on the list anyway and would rather take my (extremely low risk) chances than continue to live like this for another year.

I know from someone at AZ that they have millions of doses already to go they have been manufacturing for a while.

Yes they have. They also have billions of orders! Amazingly, the UK is not the only country in the world who have placed orders, and there are also commitments to fulfil WHO conditions for countries that are poor and could never compete against richer countries in terms of purchasing power or logistical capacity. It simply isn't as simple as "we ordered 300 million, where the hell are they?"

Bear in mind this isn’t a one-off logistical challenge. If, as is likely, the vax will have to be given annually, then as soon as the first round is completed, the process will have to start again. A sustainable process will have to be devised for the long term - perhaps putting the flu and Covid jabs into one.
The vaccine is not the answer. We just don’t have the resources to vaccinate huge numbers of people in a reasonable timeframe. I’m not an anti vaxxer and in fact am in one of the trials.

Our practice is a small old building with a tiny carpark. There is little room for social distancing. Our fridges are rammed full of other vaccines, we have no spare rooms for another. My clinics are full well into next year with smears, childhood imms, cancer injections etc. No staff currently want overtime. Two staff due retirement before Easter with no replacement. None of us have been vaccinated ourselves.
Not as easy as it seems.

@LadyJaye

I presume the first wave will be difficult, logistically, because it will comprise vulnerable people and frontline workers, so the vaxxers will have to go to them.

Next wave will be a wee bit easier, as those people will be mostly mobile.

According to the vaccine calculator, I'm not due until September 21. I hope I get done by a vet.

Out of curiosity would you prefer a military veteran or a veterinarian?

I was once at the vet with my dog and he practically climbed up onto my head and his dew claw shredded my forehead. Our very nice vet said he’d recommend going to a&e, but as the blood was poring into my eyes and I wouldn’t be able to see to drive and I had a distressed dog with me, he would glue it for me if he wanted. It’s my favourite scar

If there are 2,000 sites doing vaccinations, they only need to do 500 vaccinations a day each to get to 1m. Given the number of GP surgeries and pharmacies, that doesn’t sound that unrealistic.

Shame they can’t make it like an epi pen.

Although l guess there’s issues with allergies and stuff

@LadyJaye there’s many of us on the vulnerable list more than capable of going to a clinic, I’m 40 and normally work full time in a physical job, my in-laws are the next group down and more than capable too, they walk miles a day with their puppy. I think it will be quite a small section, care homes and those with limited mobility that would need vaccines to come to them.

I would be more than happy to pop up the road the vets to have it! Might get to see some dogs, vaccine and a dog cuddle is a bonus! I’m currently feb 7th on the calculator, I have butterflies this morning realising it could be in weeks (cautiously excited, I know nothing’s set yet) I’m immune compromised though so I’ll be getting an antibody test privately after a month to see if it’s worked.

I think there are constraints. Firstly logistics, secondly manufacturing, Hancock just said on the bbc that they currently have hundreds of thousands, he wouldn’t give a number, but it’s less than a million. Secondly people have to be sat for fifteen mins after in case of reaction, so you need to have some where for those peoooe to be sat, and then staff to monitor and release, or deal with any issues.

It’s not quite as simple as walk in sleeve up leave, with millions of doses waiting to be given. However I get the sentiment, everyone wants it increased.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Shame they can’t make it like an epi pen.

Although l guess there’s issues with allergies and stuff

Yes ideally it would be in a prefilled syringe like most of the flu vaccines but that’s one dose per syringe which is more expensive, and takes up more manufacturing time and storage space. Maybe that’s what we’ll have in the future.

Did you just pluck that figure out of the air! I don't think your understand the logistics.

Also the NHS has other things to deal with not just Corona.

I'm healthcare professional who has given vaccinations in the past and I certainly think that they should be able to do it more quickly than they do for the flu.Not everyone who needs to be vaccinated is slow and doddery and not everyone needs a long explanation . Healthcare professionals (whether or not they are NHS) should be vaccinated as a priority to keep other services running and also because it can probably be done quicker.

The rate-limiting step is probably the manufacture of the vaccine.

You could do drive through vaccinations at anywhere that has a large car park. Outside care homes and hospitals, most over 50s and vulnerable would be capable of getting there. People could wait in cars for 15 mins afterwards and flash lights if there is a problem

@maddening

Once the Oxford vaccine is approved, we have purchased 100 million doses, they could have 30 million 1st and 2nd doses complete by the end of Feb. We have 6800 go surgeries, there is talk of the army and football stadiums and sports halls being used. There are over 11000 chemists. And then the news is Sage discussing 1million per week? Wtf? 4 million 1st doses and million 2nd doses - so 4million every 2 months is never enough, surely they can't be seriously aiming for 1m a week?

You understand that there are bottlenecks in production and distribution?

Especially with something that needs liquid nitrogen to cool it.

Let's say there's enough trucks for the 1 million a week target great, where are you gonna get 6 times more to make it to 1m a day?

Build them?

@tttigress

Did you just pluck that figure out of the air! I don't think your understand the logistics.

Also the NHS has other things to deal with not just Corona.

Considering that non-urgent treatments have been very much delayed because of covid, the vaccine needs to be a priority over anything that is not urgent. The sooner people are vaccinated, the sooner things get back to normal. Also not all healthcare professionals work for the NHS.

I'm going to guess that the people who are in charge of organising it (and no, it won't be Boris) want to do as many as possible too, but are aware of the constraints.

Neither of the vaccines requires liquid nitrogen. The AZ one is refrigerated.

I also hope they aim for more than 1 million a week.

For the flu jab our local area offered a drive through service at a local leisure centre. Covid testing was in one section of the car park and flu jabs in the other (definitely not to be muddled up!) No one even had to leave their cars.

The situation around here is now so bad I think a mass roll out like this is needed for the Oxford vaccine. It doesn't need to be done on a medical site (the Pfizer is being done from a town centre office) and not everyone needs to be fully medically trained. They just need to know how to do this vaccine over and over again as quickly as possible.