To want to know when school staff and children are going to have Covid vaccinations

[F1ftyF1fty]

I work in a primary school. I have dc in school.

Given the current surge I frankly don’t want to return to school next week and sit in a squashed classroom amongst 30 children all day without PPE or social distancing. I don’t want my dc in a similar environment.

There is now a vaccine but my age group seem to be way down the list. Surely school staff and children should be higher up the list and at the very least have some indication of when they will be vaccinated.

People do realise ppe on hospitals is a paper mask crappy plastic apron and a pair of gloves? All of which teachers can wear - many or ds teachers wear masks full time through choice

Hospitals are rife with covid even not the covid wards

Children weren't included in the clinical trials so the emergency use approval doesn't include them.

Had this exact conversation today OP - l think school staff, shop workers, care staff are all as important as NHS workers and should be bumped up the list - keep schools open so parents can work. No brainer.

I think people are mistaking the notion that the vaccine is designed to protect them when really, it’s designed to protect other people. Consider this:

1. Do you work with vulnerable / at-risk groups?

YES > get vaccine (gp 1) NO > go to Q2

1. Are you clinically vulnerable or at risk of serious illness (eg age)?

YES > get vaccine (gp 2) NO > go to Q3

1. Are you potentially exposed to Covid in any other capacity, eg through school children as a teacher or a parent, or do you have any other “essential” job?

YES: Get vaccine after groups 1 and 2. NO: Wait until everyone else has had it.

By minimising the spread TO vulnerable groups, then minimising the prevalence of illness AMONG vulnerable groups, you free up capacity for healthcare services to manage everything else. Only then are vaccines used to bring overall rates of spread down.

I’m not saying whether this is right or wrong. I’m saying that maybe the vaccine wasn’t designed to protect individuals, it was designed to protect societies.

I think keyworkers who are unable to wfh aged 50+ should be a priority. We know age is a factor, and these are the people we need in work to keep the country going.

Callisto if you are deemed high risk you will be on the priority list for vaccine regardless of your job

For this reason I’ve come to the conclusion that teachers should get the vaccine, but they’re far from being a priority unless they are in Gp 1 for some reason, or Gp 2.

If you star with teachers then it’ll have to include

Police
Prison
Supermarket
Taxi and bus drivers
Driving instructors
Etc etc

The key worker list is prob half the country’s workforce

@Pastanred see my previous post, with the exception of police (who work with vulnerable people) you’re right. Teachers, supermarket and transport staff etc would be together in the last group (but over “everyone else”). There’s no reason for them to have it first.

@SnowGnome

It would be grossly unfair for staff to be vaccinated and then to demand that kids attend school when their families aren’t protected. I know six families who contracted Covid through primary schools in the last week of term. One parent is now in ICU, two are seriously unwell.

The priority has to be to get overall rates down, not to play God with who gets to live and who gets to die.

Vaccinating teachers would help to protect children’s parents because they would be less able to spread the virus amongst themselves, and less able to pass it between the children’s bubbles. It would benefit children because it might mean we could begin to go back to doing more in school without them having to be segregated into class bubbles all the time.

Vaccinating teachers could have an effect on getting overall rates down because if they can’t catch it from children or other school staff, then they can’t take it home to their families.

@MushMonster

And, as far as I know, the group with higher risk of death with covid, has already been vaccinated? On the first round of it?

Are you really that naive that you think it's possible to vaccinate that many people in a couple of weeks?! Wow.

Health and care staff need it to keep hospitals and care homes running. They’ve been prioritised not because of their personal risk but of the risk of hospitals etc being understaffed. We can shut schools but we can’t shut hospitals. The priority on age and health condition seems right to me. My son has a medical condition and will get it several months before me. I’d also like to see priority within age groups given to those who have caring responsibilities for disabled relatives and then single parents over two parent families because again they are doing vital work no one else can step in and do if they get ill. Many people work in jobs that are high risk of transmission especially with the latest strain. Schools are shut 15 weeks a year every year they aren’t essential in the same way as food and medicine supply chains or other emergency services or water, gas and electricity services - things we can’t manage without even for a week.

Hospitals test for Covid on entry. I have had a family member in multiple times and they have been tested on entry and then every few days. Ops aren’t done without a neg test.They weren’t aloud on the ward until the test result came through. Aside from that hoards of nhs staff don’t work in hospitals and many that do have less human contact than school staff. Many nhs staff have no face to face at all. I’ve just had a hospital appointment and wasn’t aloud on site until I had a neg Covid test.

They have started vaccinating NHS around here, who were after the most vulnerable. So they are doing ok with the vaccines of said group here. Very high numbers area.
No idea in other parts. But the order is still the same?

I agree that in an ideal world teachers should have priority.

But - what group of vulnerable people do you bump down the list to make room for them?

Taxis, bus drivers and supermarket workers are behind screens and aren’t sharing air with 30 other humans all day in a tiny space.

@Yorkshirehillbilly sadly as much as I really do want schools to open I agree with you. We are talking weeks until we can get this under control, not years.

@MushMonster to put the numbers into perspective, c. 600,000 people have had their first vaccine. There are c. 700,000 living in care homes, none of whole have been vaccinated yet as logistically they can’t get it in.

We very sadly lost a relative to Covid this week who was in their 80s. They weren’t due to have the vaccine for another 5 weeks.

So there’s a long way to go yet.

@Seasaltyhair

But there must be a strong argument for giving it to workers such as teachers, nursery nurses, bus drivers etc before the elderly who live in their own home

No there isn’t! Elderly people are the worst effected! My 88 year old grandmother has spent nearly a year locked away in her home scared to death she is going to die of it - and she bloody well might! She’s just had her first injection, gets her 2nd soon and can’t wait just to get out of the house and get ok the bus and start living what very little of her life she’s got left!

And my 3 and 5 year old have also been locked in their home for the last year, and they have a lot of development to do that is being hugely stunted by lack of contact with other children. Not to mention the at-risk children in their school. Pretty sure your grandmothers life has not changed as significantly as theirs.

Teachers need vaccinations now or this generation of children is going to be fucked forever.

Allowed🙄

Agree teachers need to be a priority

I'm not a teacher but I have teacher friends who have have very bad cases of covid (and some with mild ones too to be fair) but I feel like they are sitting ducks. And as Parents we also are to a lessor degree. Sure the kids will be fine but it's about bringing it home to those higher risk. I'd fully support teachers being vaccinated ahead of myself.

@SnowGnome

I think people are mistaking the notion that the vaccine is designed to protect them when really, it’s designed to protect other people. Consider this:

1. Do you work with vulnerable / at-risk groups?

YES > get vaccine (gp 1) NO > go to Q2

1. Are you clinically vulnerable or at risk of serious illness (eg age)?

YES > get vaccine (gp 2) NO > go to Q3

1. Are you potentially exposed to Covid in any other capacity, eg through school children as a teacher or a parent, or do you have any other “essential” job?

YES: Get vaccine after groups 1 and 2. NO: Wait until everyone else has had it.

By minimising the spread TO vulnerable groups, then minimising the prevalence of illness AMONG vulnerable groups, you free up capacity for healthcare services to manage everything else. Only then are vaccines used to bring overall rates of spread down.

I’m not saying whether this is right or wrong. I’m saying that maybe the vaccine wasn’t designed to protect individuals, it was designed to protect societies.

I think this much explains the logic behind it for me. Stop the spread- protect the vulnerable- protect everyone else. And to me schools are quite high in the risk of spread. Maybe because I am in a very very affected area. Schools, workplace, and shopping (for food) are the only ways of exposure for us, as everything else is closed. And there is still a huge number of people catching it around here. Two latest cases I hear is through work, and then contact with their bubble. But the highest number of cases, to my experience, have been schools.

@MushMonster They have started vaccinating NHS around here, who were after the most vulnerable. So they are doing ok with the vaccines of said group here

Sorry that’s BS. They've given up on their priority list and are basically giving it to anyone available to get to a hospital on the day so that it doesn’t spoil in wrong temperature. The NHS staff aren’t getting them because vulnerable people are done, they’re getting them because the shitshow of a govt can’t work out how to deliver on the promise it made of getting it to those most at-risk.

@MushMonster Stop the spread- protect the vulnerable- protect everyone else

no no - you’ve missed the key point!!

Stop the spread TO the vulnerable > Protect the vulnerable > protect other essential workers who don’t work with vulnerable people (teachers) > stop the spread and protect everyone else

@Grasses
Your children haven't left the home since March? Not even to go to the playground or for a walk?