To want to know when school staff and children are going to have Covid vaccinations

[F1ftyF1fty]

I work in a primary school. I have dc in school.

Given the current surge I frankly don’t want to return to school next week and sit in a squashed classroom amongst 30 children all day without PPE or social distancing. I don’t want my dc in a similar environment.

There is now a vaccine but my age group seem to be way down the list. Surely school staff and children should be higher up the list and at the very least have some indication of when they will be vaccinated.

Can you share some examples?

Loads of NHS have wfh throughout.

@Pastanred

If you star with teachers then it’ll have to include

Police
Prison
Supermarket
Taxi and bus drivers
Driving instructors
Etc etc

The key worker list is prob half the country’s workforce

Police and prison staff - yes, absolutely Supermarket staff - shoppers and staff can wear masks, CAN socially distance, are only briefly in contact or are behind screens, numbers entering shops are controlled to allow distancing to be possible. Transport staff - can wear masks or be behind screens. Driving instructions - can wear masks or open car windows.

Teachers/TAs - no social distancing, no masks, no ventilation, enclosed spaces for hours and hours, in contact with bodily fluids through day, serving and clearing away lunches, changing after toilet accidents, hearing readers, children picking noses straight after washing hands, wanting to hold hands with adults, needing hugs, needing first aid etc etc

DO NOT COMPARE TEACHERS /TAS WITH SUPERMARKET STAFF, DRIVERS ETC

@PinkFondantFancy just to correct - they don’t know whether it prevents transmission. Not enough research has been carried out on it yet. Are you really saying that using the vaccine to “alleviate fear” is a priority over protecting someone vulnerable? If so I’ll have one too thanks!

Not enough is know about the new variant either, and most specifically how it affects children. That’s the most worrying thing.

@MushMonster my point is please don’t try to pass off opinion as fact. You said you “have your doubts” that the government isn’t following its own list. I can help with that. The fact is that just 600,000 people have been vaccinated so far. There are 700,000 in care homes who haven’t had it, there are also approximately 700,000 care home workers. So that’s 1.4 million, plus 3.2 million people over 80.

Total c. 4.6 million. And out of the 600,000, many of those people are NHS workers (I’ve no issue with this at all). Add to that everyone over 50 and those clinically vulnerable. Just saying that we are a long long way from getting anywhere near vaccinating people who aren’t either 1) working with vulnerable people or 2) vulnerable themselves.

I am an anaesthetist and haven’t had it yet! Neither have any of my colleagues and we are about as front line and exposed to covid as you can get!

@F1ftyF1fty

Office staff, any non face to face staff, those who should be doing face to face but aren’t....

And how many on your not worthy NHS list have received the vaccines so far? Do you realise what some NHS ‘office staff’ do in terms of administrative support? How do you suppose those of us on the front line process lab specimens including biopsy specimens, issue TPN, service and maintain oxygen supplies, formulate cytotoxic preps, arrange and book urgent MRIs and investigations, send correspondence to GPs, prepare thousands of patient meals. None of these roles are ‘face to face’ We’ll just keep all those staff self isolating then shall we? Or just make them stay home until all this is over?

@FoxinaScarf idk, I’ve seen people do some pretty gross things on public transport ...!

A healthy, 30 year old teacher is highly unlikely to die from COVID. However, in the current (and worsening) situation they ARE highly likely to contract it and that will have them (plus contacts) off work for 10+ days.

If keeping schools open is a "national priority", teachers need moving up the vaccination list, now.

@BiggerTallerFaster

Can you share some examples?

Loads of NHS have wfh throughout.

And they’ve all been vaccinated already have they?

Look Snowglobe, I will say one last time. My surrounding NHS has already started getting it, and others have their booking for early Jan. I know that for a fact.
About the very vulnerable, I do not know anyone personally, but can ask care workers. Here, NHS is scheduled behind the care home residents. So I am assuming they are progressing with that.
If they are not, it is not my fault.
Some NHS have said here that they do not have a date yet, which I hope they get soon.
And regarding schools, I still think they should be up in the list for vaccines.

I'm a primary school teacher too and completely agree with you!

@ofwarren

My 6 year old has had to be home educated since march as he is shielded. We were devastated to hear the vaccines are not for children.

My 10 year old went back for a few weeks, whilst we waited for a letter from the Dr, but otherwise has shielded since March. We have been remote learning since half term. He won't be eligible for the vaccine. We too are devastated.

@MushMonster

I’m not saying that nhs staff aren’t having it, nor is anyone suggesting it’s your fault. I’m saying that you should be more aware of your facts:

And, as far as I know, the group with higher risk of death with covid, has already been vaccinated?

Not true. 600k vaccs to date, at least 4.6million in first groups (ex HC workers)

Here, NHS is scheduled behind the care home residents. So I am assuming they are progressing with that

Assumptions are not facts.

they are doing ok with vaccine of said groups here [because NHS staff are getting it]

Not possible, see numbers.

I have my doubts

See numbers.

I’m going to bed.

@BiggerTallerFaster - How can my colleagues and i provide assessment & treatment to people from our homes ?🙄

There are arguments for lots of essential work places to be further up the list. Localised outbreaks commonly seem to be in places like food processing plants etc, where adults are in close contact with each other.

The priorities that have been set seem appropriate. Everything possible should be done to expedite the vaccine rollout.

[quote IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls]@BiggerTallerFaster - How can my colleagues and i provide assessment & treatment to people from our homes ?🙄
[/quote]
Exactly! But even those who are not facing patients are extremely needed. Someone has to organise the supplies, the paperwork, the schedules, phone calls, and so on, while the others care for patients.
So, in my view, they do need to be protected so if anything happens to us, we have care available.
And I think the same of other priority sectors that are in contact with others. At the end of the day, we need to ensure we have food, electricity, water, police, and, of course, teachers!

I think people have odd ideas about the purpose of vaccinating NHS staff. It's not some kind of present for their hard work, or even because they're at particularly high risk compared to other people. It's because if they catch it (especially if they get very sick or die), the NHS will be even more stretched than it is and people will die as a result.

The same is true of school staff. However, if school staff aren't at work, nobody dies.

It's a heartless way of considering it, but scientists have to be heartless. So if we are going to vaccinate by occupation, I think it would not be by which occupation is most at risk, but by which group is most vital and irreplaceable.

@2020out

I think people have odd ideas about the purpose of vaccinating NHS staff. It's not some kind of present for their hard work, or even because they're at particularly high risk compared to other people. It's because if they catch it (especially if they get very sick or die), the NHS will be even more stretched than it is and people will die as a result.

The same is true of school staff. However, if school staff aren't at work, nobody dies.

It's a heartless way of considering it, but scientists have to be heartless. So if we are going to vaccinate by occupation, I think it would not be by which occupation is most at risk, but by which group is most vital and irreplaceable.

Well, quite but there are some people on here who are refusing to listen.

They also refuse to understand that most health and social care frontline staff deal with highly medically vulnerable people and the staff being vaccinated reduces the reduce to the service users/patients. It seems those posters don’t care about the vulnerable in that sense because they genuinely seem to think they’re owed priority.

Teachers, nurses, social workers, Physiotherapists, OTs, porters, supermarket workers, factory workers - all examples of important jobs. It’s not about the job being worthy.

The priority is to reduce mortality and morbidity and age is the biggest risk factor, health plays a role too. It’s just not relevant to schools, except perhaps SEN schools.

@StillRunningUpThatHill

Doublefaced, surely your argument applies to healthy 30 year old nurses, too? But nobody is arguing about the need to vaccinate HCPs? And we know that before Christmas, secondary schools were rife with it - so teachers are being exposed alongside nurses, but without appropriate PPE.

This

@42isthemeaning Read the post above.
It’s not all about ‘me me me’
The majority of teachers do not work with CV people. To equate teachers with nurses in regards vaccination priorities is ridiculous and shows a real lack of understanding of WHY we have the priority list that we have.

Mush you really need to do more reading.
The vaccine(s) are effective in reducing the effects of Covid. This is not like normal vaccines where the illness is stopped in its tracks and you aren't infectious. With this one you get it, you prepared it but you don't get as ill.
Currently old and vulnerable people of all ages are more likely to get so ill that they need hospital treatment. This takes up a lot of hospital resources.
You are more likely to get ill as a healthy person if you deal with a lot of people spreading the virus (viral load) but you are still less likely to need hospital treatment.
Also people don't stop having strokes, heart attacks, cancer, broken legs because the virus is happening.
So we start with a programme to stop the hospitals filling up (old and vulnerable) and the NHS staff to treat them. We then have the spaces and staff to treat the small percentage of the rest of the population who get very Ill properly.

you prepared it = you spread it.

And I hope teachers will be vaccinated pretty quickly once they've done the vulnerable and I hope they figure out a way to help ECV children very quickly.

I think the priority list as it is is correct. Overarching goal needs to be keeping health service going, which means ensuring health staff not off sick, ensuring virus not in care homes, and ensuring those most likely to end up seriously ill are protected. Then work through others by group depending on how likely they are to get seriously ill.

There’s little point vaccinating someone unlikely to get seriously ill themselves unless (a) they work in health so their absence would mean further stress on health system or (b) they work closely worth the vulnerable so are likely to pass it on.

That’s it. Everyone else is a “nice to have” but not essential for the functioning of the health service and the maintenance of basic welfare. It’s about saving lives first and foremost.

Say we have 1,000 vaccines—of course these need to go to vulnerable first, as any of these people who get it are likely to end up in hospital. Even if a high percentage of teachers might get it, very few will end up seriously ill so it just can’t be the same level of priority. That 1000 jabs might keep 50 vulnerable out of hospital vs 0.5 teachers. It would be an odd choice to prioritise them above the vulnerable. But 100% should have PPE and mass testing.

I agree it’s horrible to expect teachers to teach under these conditions. My DB is a 40+ year old clinically vulnerable teacher and thinks he’s just being thrown on the fire.

I actually think sod the vaccination priority order, get people jabbed quickly. We need to jab 20-30 million people quickly in car parks or wherever. Rather than having people make appointments through GPs and saying oh great we’ve vaccinated half a million people. Way too slow.

[quote Bluebird2021]@quirkyquails

why waste it on a group its not been aimed at? nothing to do with 'attitude' its not been developed for or tested on kids!! they aren't at risk hence schools being open!![/quote]
And you seriously believe that bollocks that the government are spouting?