To want to know when school staff and children are going to have Covid vaccinations

[F1ftyF1fty]

I work in a primary school. I have dc in school.

Given the current surge I frankly don’t want to return to school next week and sit in a squashed classroom amongst 30 children all day without PPE or social distancing. I don’t want my dc in a similar environment.

There is now a vaccine but my age group seem to be way down the list. Surely school staff and children should be higher up the list and at the very least have some indication of when they will be vaccinated.

@Doublefaced

‘but school staff are being decimated by this virus in some areas and it's only going to get worse.’

What are the current rates of infection for teachers?

If you google, you'll find plenty of news stories about schools which have had to close due to a lack of available staff due to the decimation of their staff by COVID. See this article here from The Herald.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18888606.coronavirus-school-teacher-absence-rates-double-tier-4-areas/

And from The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/dec/14/covid-stress-takes-toll-on-teachers-in-england

You will find it hard to get stats officially, possibly because the government doesn't want you to know - I can only surmise. Interestingly, a Cambridge academic, Dr Sarah Rasmussen made an official complaint to the UK statistics authority about an ONS study which was produced in October because it was clearly presented to make it look as if teachers were not at a more significant risk of catching COVID than others, including frontline health care workers.

"In her complaint, seen by Tes, Dr Rasmussen has said that data presented by the Office for National Statistics in an analysis, published earlier this month, does not support its conclusion that “there is no evidence of difference in the positivity rate between teachers and other key workers".
Dr Rasmussen says that, in fact, one of the teacher categories in the report – "teacher of an unknown type" – has a Covid positivity rate of 0.51 per cent – 28 per cent higher than the key worker category and 16 per cent higher than other professions […] The caption furthermore stated: ‘Since the start of the school year there is no evidence of difference in the positivity rate between teachers and other key workers.'
“This is unacceptably – and seemingly intentionally – misleading. The only sense in which their characterisation and caption are correct is if one interprets the entire study as being too underpowered to provide evidence of any sort, but, in that case, why did they even publish this study?
“The authors of this analysis almost certainly knew that this characterisation would be held up as evidence that teachers were not at any additional risk.""

Anecdata from many many school staff will tell you about the issues of staff absences in schools. Why do you not believe that this would be the case?

[quote Monkeytennis97]@Doublefaced

Here's one link:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/tributes-paid-much-loved-inspirational-19536602.amp

I haven't got the time or inclination to find others at the moment as I've got lessons to prepare and the need to constantly ask for 'links, links' is very convenient for those who close their ears to the hundreds of testimonies of teachers on here day after day. Quite frankly I cba with goady people.[/quote]
If your response to being asked to qualify claims that are being made with facts, is to call people obtuse and goady, then you really don’t help your case. Some teachers believe that they are more deserving of vaccination than many other groups. There simply isn’t the evidence to support a strategy which diverts vaccine resources away from the identified priority groups if we are to stop the NHS from crumbling completely.

@Doublefaced whatevs

But the whole of the NHS surely shouldn’t be a priority group as others have pointed out. Also if you want nhs staff on the frontline in work without disruption vaccination for school staff is necesssry ASAP. The disruption last term pre this new turn of events was bad enough.

@F1ftyF1fty

But the whole of the NHS surely shouldn’t be a priority group as others have pointed out. Also if you want nhs staff on the frontline in work without disruption vaccination for school staff is necesssry ASAP. The disruption last term pre this new turn of events was bad enough.

The people who have ‘pointed out’ that the whole of the NHS shouldn’t be a priority seem to be teachers. And they have very pointedly and repeatedly, failed to address the points raised by others on this thread about why so many non pt facing roles are still critical to the overall delivery of patient care. You’re just not hearing what you want to hear. And the people who are challenging your beliefs are the obtuse and goady ones ?

Well OP, the NHS will be the system to take care of us if we fall ill. Surely they will also apply priorities within the NHS, vaccinating first the more needed roles, but they all spin a wheel in the mechanism. And in reality, we do need more of them!
Still, I fully think that vaccinating in schools should be up the list, quite close to the NHS and carers, with the most needed priority sectors. To both protect the individuals, and the service they provide to all of us (which we do need indeed), and try to content the spread (as many are in quite a bit of contact with others). And in the case of containing the spread, schools are at the centre for what I see around here. Followed closely by working places where space has to be shared, as no other option.

So staff working from home, office staff, staff not working face to face are crucial for the first round ?School staff can’t work from home,if you want kids actually in school.

Plenty of non teaching staff including a poster’s GP have seen the need.

Bubbles in school are stretched as it is. Schools will end up closing,NHS staff will need to care for their dc.

@Pastanred

Foxina

Teachers can wear masks same as all those people

Half my kids teachers wear masks

In some schools teachers are being told not to.

I'd be very surprised if it ever got given to non clinically vulnerables under 40 to be honest - with the exception of key workers.

By the time you've vaccinated everyone (remember it's two doses) from the top of the list, the first lot will need to have next year's. There's no time to vaccinate everyone and keep them vaccinated. I do imagine, though, that there will be a private service like with the flu jab eventually, so if you really want it, you'll be able to get it.

The real effect will be seen with the speed at which these vaccines make it. A difference of two weeks or so may not make much effect, but if we are talking of months, then.....
We will all end up having it before the vaccine, at the current infection rates!

Well according to the briefing this morning. Frontline nhs are a priority whereas other nhs staff not directly in contact with patients will be added to the phase 2 vaccination program.
There was a hint that key/essential workers may be prioritised in phase 2 when it happens and that probably will include teachers, police etc
For now phase 1 is everyone above 50 with nhs frontline staff being right at the top in terms of occupations.

The plan is to vaccinate every single adult over 18.

I suspect that once they have done all the vulnerable - they will then admit that actually nobody else was ever at risk from Covid.

As said above, I would be surprised if there is any need for vaccinations at all once we reach under 40s.

Such an interesting point someone raised on this thread - did we as a society have a discussion around the principle that if the NHS is overwhelmed we shut society down/ close schools/ stop children playing with their friends (even though they are not at risk at all from this virus)

?? Did anybody ever publish any discussion around this? What alternatives were considered?

Why didn't we spend the last 10 months building up an army of young youth workers/ young teachers who are not at risk so that vulnerable teachers could be furloughed?

Surely even those who want schools close must admit that it is an inredible burden for young people to see their lives shut down - when they don't themselves get sick from covid

We have in tier 4 banned children playing, banned teenagers socialising, activities vital to their developing brains.

Yet this group are at no risk from covid themselves

As a society we have utterly failed them. It's not even scientific - in most countries there are no limits on young people mixing outdoors - ie scotland under 12s are exampt from the rules outdoors and teenagers can meet in bigger groups than adults.

We should have found ways to let children and young people be normal.

@F1ftyF1fty

So staff working from home, office staff, staff not working face to face are crucial for the first round ?School staff can’t work from home,if you want kids actually in school.

Plenty of non teaching staff including a poster’s GP have seen the need.

Bubbles in school are stretched as it is. Schools will end up closing,NHS staff will need to care for their dc.

I gave you a list of examples of non face to face NHS staff earlier in the thread. Care to refer back to it and argue that any if those aren’t crucial?

And jn breaking news, teachers over 50 and those under 50 who are CV will now be included in the first phase of the Oxford rollout according to the BBC. Does that do anything to reassure you?

And jn breaking news, teachers over 50 and those under 50 who are CV will now be included in the first phase of the Oxford rollout according to the BBC. Does that do anything to reassure you?

@Doublefaced care to link this as I haven't seen it anywhere on the BBC news?

It's not breaking news - it's exactly what's been in the guidance on prioritisation since it was published on 2 December

www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-2-december-2020/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-2-december-2020

Please do look at the statistics. The rates of people under 60 dying of Covid are negligible.

Yes you might catch it and that's disruptive but it's no more an issue than the common cold, unless you get it severely and require hospital treatment.

The government has to prioritise giving it to the people who are likely to actually get bloody poorly with it.

As a society we have utterly failed them

This is so so so true.

Our nhs trust vaccinate all 2-11 year olds for flu, the rationale is that it reduces the spread of the flu to the older generation and reduces the hospitalisation numbers - they see it as a control measure for winter flu season.

With the exception that it's not been tested on kids yet (maybe hopefully they are testing phases for paediatrics at this point?)

I'm struggling to understand why this rationale isn't being applied to Covid too

@42isthemeaning

And jn breaking news, teachers over 50 and those under 50 who are CV will now be included in the first phase of the Oxford rollout according to the BBC. Does that do anything to reassure you?

@Doublefaced care to link this as I haven't seen it anywhere on the BBC news?

On the BBC live feed at 11.22

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Why on earth do people keep going on about vaccinating children when it’s not been tested on them

Say they tested the vaccines (Pfizer/Oxford) over a period of 4 months on 5000 children and they appeared to be safe (and there were no budget restrictions), would you still be reticent to vaccinate children?

I'm struggling to understand why this rationale isn't being applied to Covid too

It is - they probably will be vaccinated eventually. But right now we dont have capacity to vaccinate everyone so its more important to vaccinate the people who are at high risk of dying.

I've just seen on my fb that a soon to be ex friend who is a critical, but extremely back-office but not patient-facing NHS employee has been vaccinated, despite having had covid in September. Other friends are in A&E, have been told to turn off the t&t app as it is assumed they will be in contact wit positive patients, have been told no vaccines.

I'm getting ready to go back to work in a giant secondary school on Monday in a tier 4 area, no ppe, no vaccine anywhere close.

Angry isn't the word...

Say they tested the vaccines (Pfizer/Oxford) over a period of 4 months on 5000 children and they appeared to be safe (and there were no budget restrictions), would you still be reticent to vaccinate children?

Given we cant vaccinate everyone all at once and we have a population with zero resistance to this novel virus I would still want the people who might actually die vaccinated first.

Ffsffsffsffsffs

Are you over 60/CEV?