Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

London Hospital declares Major Incident.

426 replies

RubyViolet · 28/12/2020 16:55

This is frightening, and it’s not the hospital that l have heard about earlier today. This is in South London and l am hearing about a hospital in North London.
www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-london-queen-elizabeth-hospital-oxygen-b1779468.html

What happens next ?

OP posts:
time4anothername · 28/12/2020 22:51

[quote Hollyhobbi]@Passmeabottlemrjones a Cpap machine only needs an electrical source not oxygen. It uses ambient room air, the same air we all breathe in. My dad uses a Cpap machine at night and it probably saved his life back in March after he caught Covid.[/quote]
this is incorrect information with regards to the hospitals' needs for oxygen. The CPAPs to treat Covid are modified to supply oxygen. Basic CPAP for sleep apnea keeps airways open without supplemental oxygen.

The oxygen is desperately needed to keep people alive. The BBC Hospital programme documentary had an episode where they were not able to provide oxygen to all patients at the optimum flow rate. This was the Royal Free. Our hospitals were not build with the infrastructure to supply oxygen at the amount and rate needed for treating dozens of patients continuously and concurrently. Healthcare staff in the episode were put under horrendous pressure trying to decide how to share out oxygen and who doesn't get optimum flow rate.

ZombiePara · 28/12/2020 22:51

I'll preface this post by saying that I haven't read the full thread - I just can't bring myself to read all the deniers posts.

First off - I am in no way saying that you shouldn't call an ambulance if you have no other option. However. Broken wrist without bone poking out? Take some painkillers, self support, and get yourself to a and e. 12 hours of d and v? Self manage at home and speak to a pharmacist. Ongoing problem that hasn't resolved with multiple doctor inputs and you just feel like skipping the queue? Have a reality check and sort yourself out.

On any pre-Covid given shift, I go to people who have chronic problems, who decide that at 2am they just can't deal with it anymore, even though it is no worse than normal. I go to people who can't be bothered to try calling their doctor, and sadly I am then forced to sit there and call the same number they have, and ask to speak to their doctor.

Nowadays, we go to several covid-19 patients. Some of whom just want reassuring, or think they're positive and want a test (which we do NOT provide).
Some we go to who are really sick. Who need the oxygen. Who need hospital.

Sadly, around Christmas, we do go to "granny dumps" where people can't be bothered to deal with their relatives over the festive period, so try to get them admitted to hospital - out of sight out of mind.

On the Christmas day shift, a colleague was sat outside in the ambulance with a patient, waiting for there to be room in the hospital...just to be triaged.
While waiting, 3 people in their 30s were intubated for ventilation.
One cardiac arrest that another colleague went to? They got the patient back again, but on arrival at hospital, there were no ventilators, so they were to be made comfortable and no active treatment given.

London hospitals and ambulance services are falling over. They are unable to cope with the sheer volume of calls; this is due to an increase in the number of calls, an increase in staff off sick or isolating, and an increase in waiting time to offload at the hospitals a anywhere in the region of 4-5 hours, leaving crews only able to deal with 2-3 patients a shift.

It is worthy of being called a major incident, and as such, Ambulance Trusts around London have all (to my knowledge, certainly all of the Essex ones where I work have) given at least two vehicles per shift, to aid London.

This means we are shirt staffed in our area, London are still struggling, and people are waiting hours upon hours for vehicles; some who need us, and many who don't.

I am lucky enough to have not had to go to London yet, but no doubt on my next set of shifts (4x 12+ hour nights) I will be one of the crews that go. And I will without complaint.

We haven't provided support to London in a large scale like this in the 5 years I've been in the job; the last I know that we did was with grenfell and the terrorist attacks, but even then it was SW Essex that supported London, and the other parts of Essex supported SW.

Yes, there are always winter pressures. Yes, there are winter pressures this year.

Except this year, winter pressures are compounded by Covid-19.

It really is amazing how on the super sunny days/bank holiday people manage to look after themselves, or how when the doctors were on strike a few years ago, people managed to be self sufficient.

Think twice before you phone an ambulance, and think twice before you self present.

Cannotcope4223 · 28/12/2020 22:55

Bloody scaremongering! This is entirely unhelpful. Jesus.

Blacksheepcat · 28/12/2020 22:56

Wow, Mumsnet confuses me.
Threads before Christmas asking “I’m in tier 4 but can I go and travel to stay with x, y and z? Everyone on here saying “yes, I would” and looking for loopholes or grey areas in the rules to justify it. When some people try to point out it’s an obvious “No” they get absolutely slated.
Now....surprisingly (not) a massive spike in cases and NHS can’t cope and you’re all Shock Confused

Babyroobs · 28/12/2020 22:56

[quote ICUDoc]@Babyroobs

As an ICU Consultant in one of those hospitals mentioned in North London, yes, it is extremely difficult at the moment, but there is excellent communication and teamwork happening almost hourly to keep all patients safe. We are transferring patients between hospitals where absolutely necessary to accommodate increasing numbers in individual trusts, ambulances are on temporary diverts to hospitals with more capacity at the moment, leave has been cancelled etc... lots of things happening....

It is much worse than the usual winter crisis due to a multitude of different reasons - the shear number of cases coming through the door, the significant decrease in staff due to their own personal illness, needing to isolate, or needing to shield (having a predominantly female nursing group means there are quite a few pregnant ones for example), and the inability to cohort covid patients with non-covid patients.

Patient getting increasingly younger too (I have personally reviewed patients between ages of 27-40 today with very few underlying conditions). Please continue to take this seriously and stay safe.[/quote]
You are doing an amazing job. Thank you.

Madhairday · 28/12/2020 22:58

@ZombiePara and @ICUDoc thank you for all you do. It must be especially frustrating and downright offensive for you to read some of the deniers posts on this thread. Thank you. You are so valued. Flowers

Retiremental · 28/12/2020 22:58

@Blacksheepcat

Wow, Mumsnet confuses me. Threads before Christmas asking “I’m in tier 4 but can I go and travel to stay with x, y and z? Everyone on here saying “yes, I would” and looking for loopholes or grey areas in the rules to justify it. When some people try to point out it’s an obvious “No” they get absolutely slated. Now....surprisingly (not) a massive spike in cases and NHS can’t cope and you’re all Shock Confused
Other people spread Covid. Mumsnetters are exempt.
Retiremental · 28/12/2020 22:58

@Cannotcope4223

Bloody scaremongering! This is entirely unhelpful. Jesus.
You work on the frontline I presume?
RubyViolet · 28/12/2020 22:59

@mrshoho

There is a post tonight on our local fb from a frontline dr at UCLH saying NHS in N London is gone past breaking point. All ICU beds and ward beds are full and patients in A&E needing beds but there is nowhere. These are Barnet, Royal Free, UCLH and North Middlesex hospitals. This situation seems much worse than the usual winter crisis.
This is exactly why l started the post today. I don’t want to name the hospital my husband is being treated at but it is one of the above you name. I was so distressed to hear what is happening. l posted this afternoon my that my husband a cancer patient .has not seen his consultant since February. He has phone consultations with a nurse. He is supposed to have MRI’s every 3 months, he has one MRI since February and 1 CT scan. This is all because the NHS was only just about functional with zero margin for congestion. Covid has pushed everything over the margins. The NHS can’t handle this, the Government haven’t planned through the scenarios happening now.
OP posts:
Madhairday · 28/12/2020 23:00

Have you read the posts above from people on the frontline, @Cannotcope4223? It is not scaremongering to tell the truth. If you don't want to hear the truth then don't look at these threads. The truth must be told - what an awful situation we would be in if it were withheld. Now that would be dystopian.

IloveJKRowling · 28/12/2020 23:02

The truth isn't scaremongering.

People who say the truth is scaremongering usually have a very unpleasant agenda.

CoffeeandCroissant · 28/12/2020 23:04

Back on the wards today. Staggering amount of covid. Striking difference from last time - large family outbreaks with teenagers/young adults the focus. Multiple family members being admitted. Not looking forward to next two weeks. Please follow the rules this new years eve.
Martin Llewelyn. Professor of Infectious Diseases and NHS Consultant. President of British Infection Association.

CoffeeandCroissant · 28/12/2020 23:04

mobile.twitter.com/MartinLlewelyn/status/1343566836684746754

PimlicoJo · 28/12/2020 23:05

I normally think there is a lot of exaggeration and drama on threads like this.

However I have a friend who works in a senior position in a hospital in London. As a medic she's often blasé about things in the media and brushes them off. She's very practical. Not this time, she says the situation is the worst she's known it and the next few weeks will be critical after Xmas mixing.

SaltyAF · 28/12/2020 23:06

@Cannotcope4223

Bloody scaremongering! This is entirely unhelpful. Jesus.
Oh fuck off
SaltyAF · 28/12/2020 23:09

@ICUDoc, have to say I am shitting myself about being back in a classroom next week (ok only year 11 to begin with but 31 at a time). The reports of young people with no underlying conditions are very worrying (I'm older and fatter, but some would have it that it would serve me right).

Best wishes for your ongoing work, and you @zombiepara.

StrugglingICUnurse · 28/12/2020 23:10

Thank you @ICUDoc for your well thought out comments.
I agree, seeing similar in my workplace.

Butterymuffin · 28/12/2020 23:11

Don't get this 'we can't just keep throwing money at the NHS' line. I thought the point was we're not doing that as we should be. Too much going to dodgy consultancy deals with mates of Cabinet ministers. How many CPAP machines would that have bought?

alreadytaken · 28/12/2020 23:11
  1. It's only scaremongering when it's not true - this is.
  1. This is not normal winter pressure, where patients are diverted elsewhere. This is the NHS being overwhelmed, with nowhere to send patients except the care parks (as used in Belgium) or the morgue.
  1. Those who claim the nHS is wasteful should be ashamed of themselves. The NHS is underfunded and has been deliberately run down by those who wish to sell it off. Then you will pay more and get less than you do now.
  1. It's a miracle that NHS staff dont leave en masse - and a lot of nurses are thinking of doing just that.
  1. NHS staff will be giving up their spare time to try and cope/ to vaccinate you. The covid deniers, those minimising this - you dont deserve any health care.
mrshoho · 28/12/2020 23:13

A big thank you from me too, to all of you and your colleagues in the frontline of our NHS.

TramaDollface · 28/12/2020 23:14

@LaBeu

I agree with the below:

What is the point of this thread? Apart from to spread fear? I swear some people are just thriving off the drama.

To which you replied..

I started this thread to help people see what is happening in London, the media aren’t focusing on this because of Brexit / Christmas. People have a right to know

Has it not occurred to you that people just might not want to know, OP? Because I'm one of them. I have been actively avoiding the news for the best part of a week because I could feel my anxiety was beginning to spiral. I clicked on this thread, stupidly, because it was on the front page of MN and as a Londoner I felt compelled to read beyond the title. Had this not been on the front page of MN I would have been none the wiser which would have been in my best interests.

I'm sure you mean well but all of this scare mongering and "look how terrible this is!" talk serves only to frighten people.

You are not going to scare the idiots (who take no precautions) into being more careful as those types of people don't care regardless.

It's the people like me and thousands of others who do care, and have been as careful as we can be, who you will unnerve.

The MSM should be fucking ashamed of themselves for peddling endless doom and gloom. Fear sells.

Don’t click on it then!

Most sensible people prefer to be informed.

ZombiePara · 28/12/2020 23:14

@Madhairday
You're welcome. It is my job, I do it for the love not the money, but the stress this is causing is a new one.

@Cannotcope4223
It is indeed a fine line between scaremongering and being blunt and honest.
To me, now is not the time for mollycoddling or "there there"... people are denying and looking for any excuse to not follow the tiers. It's time people who work in the job try and make a stand, are honest, and maybe even if 10% of the naysayers take note...that's 10% more than before.

Thank you @SaltyAF , best of luck wrangling school kids! That's a job I could never do! Take the best precautions that you can, and hopefully you stay safe!

@PimlicoJo same with me. I don't often stress about work, just get on with it. But this is hitting a point of concern

Goatscheesewithhoney · 28/12/2020 23:14

Re: ambulances - there are a lot of calls outs for people with mental health or/and substance misuse issues who take relatively small overdoses or self harm on a fairly frequent basis. Ambulances have to be called, as well as the police, even for frequent attenders who are in and out on a regular basis, because a risk to life must be taken seriously and some of these people are at high risk of accidental death because of self harming behaviours.

One of the problems is though that these people have lost care and support due to lockdown so are going into crisis more pre-K and require ambulances more frequently than they did before.

Mental health support needs more funding immediately, as it is linked to lockdown and still puts pressure on hospitals that are overwhelmed by Covid , even due they are not Covid patients directly.

MadameBlobby · 28/12/2020 23:14

@alreadytaken

1. It's only scaremongering when it's not true - this is.
  1. This is not normal winter pressure, where patients are diverted elsewhere. This is the NHS being overwhelmed, with nowhere to send patients except the care parks (as used in Belgium) or the morgue.
  1. Those who claim the nHS is wasteful should be ashamed of themselves. The NHS is underfunded and has been deliberately run down by those who wish to sell it off. Then you will pay more and get less than you do now.
  1. It's a miracle that NHS staff dont leave en masse - and a lot of nurses are thinking of doing just that.
  1. NHS staff will be giving up their spare time to try and cope/ to vaccinate you. The covid deniers, those minimising this - you dont deserve any health care.
The NHS along with education has only survived as it has due to the goodwill and free labour of its staff. Turns out those things have a breaking point.

Covid is here to stay. Even if deaths and hospitalisations reduce by 99% following the vaccine that is still thousands more people every year than did before Covid existed.

Goatscheesewithhoney · 28/12/2020 23:15

*more frequently