London Hospital declares Major Incident.

[RubyViolet]

This is frightening, and it’s not the hospital that l have heard about earlier today. This is in South London and l am hearing about a hospital in North London.
www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-london-queen-elizabeth-hospital-oxygen-b1779468.html

What happens next ?

Our PM is no longer obese thank you.

Still a liar though.

Yes, shortage of oxygen is a common problem with the existing design of medical gas systems.

Darent Valley Hospital in Dartford, 10 miles from the QE put in a second Oxygen supply (VIE plant) to cope with the demand.

Only 1 major problem now, not enough beds, they have created over 60 x additional beds in areas not designed for use (was previously office and storage space).

A lot of people are going to die in the next few months.

@LangClegsInSpace

Ah fucking hell this is my local hospital.

This isn't the first major incident related to oxygen supply in this pandemic and I'm sure it won't be the last. From the article it seems that the problem is mostly because of the infrastructure that delivers the oxygen to the wards.

Why the FUCK didn't they sort this out in the summer when we had some breathing space?

QE is a bit of a shithole (no disrespect to the amazing staff there ) and in normal times most patients would consider being diverted to Kings or St Thomas's as an upgrade, but this is really quite scary.

My GP has advised to only go to a&e there if I am dead. It’s not a great hospital to start with as a whole, although like any hospital it has some amazing staff within it working really hard

I mean, the only time you should be calling an ambulance is when there's a real threat to life no?

No. It’s when you need medical treatment and can’t safely get to hospital otherwise, if at all.

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

The underfunding doesn’t help. But it’s probably a less significant factor than you think, IMHO.

The reason the rest of the world is attempting to control the virus is because their healthcare systems will get overwhelmed if they don’t. This is not an NHS specific problem. Germany has much more capacity than we do and they’ve been very clear that increasing cases will overwhelm their system. That’s why they extended their lockdown.

I think France are considering a new lockdown because their new cases are now around 15,000 a day. Ours are 41,000 and still rising. lack of funding is not what is going to cause any difference in health outcomes. It’s a criminal level of inaction.

This!

And it's not just about lockdown measures. We still don't have the basics in place for widespread community testing, effective and timely contact tracing and supporting people to isolate or quarantine properly.

As a pp said, this particular hospital has significant issues even without Covid. No sensible person living nearby lets an ambulance take them there - its reputation is that bad. People insist on going to Darent Valley or Princess Royal.

And my friends husband who's a doctor refuses to do locum shifts there - he says it's not worth his registration as it's far too risky.

It's all over social media locally about not going to their A&E. Last time I went (with MIL) it was like a war zone. 3 blokes handcuffed to police in A&E and people everywhere.

As a pp said, this particular hospital has significant issues even without Covid. No sensible person living nearby lets an ambulance take them there - its reputation is that bad. People insist on going to Darent Valley or Princess Royal

When I lived in Kent, Darent Valley had an awful rep- people if able to would rather travel to Basildon (also seemed to a dreadful rep, but many considered it a better option than DV!). Can't speak for any of them as never attended any of them, though.

I'm in Devon. The Exeter Nightingale hospital is operational with patients, when figures were lower it was being used for diagnostic tests and vaccine trials. Don't know about anywhere else but the Exeter hospital seems to have been successful but no one hears about it, on BBC news today they said none of the Nightingale hospitals being used. I'm beginning to wonder if we exist in Devon.

@Musicaldilemma

People in South East London are driving a lot, out in the parks etc- it seems the fear factor is gone. It is almost like everyone has decided to do what they can/push the rules a bit. If the government goes for an even stricter lockdown I just don’t think many will respect it, unfortunately.

It is unfair on the elderly and we are nearly there with the vaccine but human beings are inherently selfish and fed up and it seems most have decided that Covid is not a big risk to them personally. This government won’t put the army on the streets. I think further lockdowns are pointless. All the government can do now is bring on scary stories of the NHS being overwhelmed. So sadly, some people will not even believe those (unless they happen to know someone they trust speaking out). So I think we need communications from MPs, local GPs, local hospital CEOs directly to the public on social media.

Driving in their own cars instead of piling onto public transport and going for a walk in the park in the great big blowy outdoors? How very dare they! Obviously SE Londoners have only themselves to blame

@ancientgran

I'm in Devon. The Exeter Nightingale hospital is operational with patients, when figures were lower it was being used for diagnostic tests and vaccine trials. Don't know about anywhere else but the Exeter hospital seems to have been successful but no one hears about it, on BBC news today they said none of the Nightingale hospitals being used. I'm beginning to wonder if we exist in Devon.

I’m in the SW. I’d heard the Exeter nightingale was open. Maybe the media don’t want to hear positives.

Hospitals declare major incidents every winter. It just doesn't normally hit the news.

Deniers are weird. I read an article last week about a nurse in a heavily republican state in the US. She said on her covid ward a man was gasping for breath and trying to tell her it was all a hoax. She quite bluntly stated in the article that at least when they are intubated they shut up.

I’m in the SW. I’d heard the Exeter nightingale was open. Maybe the media don’t want to hear positives. Well it is either that or we don't exist Dobby, figments of someone's imagination.

It is very scary. Crossing fingers and toes for luck health and no home accidents we'll be fecked if we need a&e.

There is a post tonight on our local fb from a frontline dr at UCLH saying NHS in N London is gone past breaking point. All ICU beds and ward beds are full and patients in A&E needing beds but there is nowhere. These are Barnet, Royal Free, UCLH and North Middlesex hospitals. This situation seems much worse than the usual winter crisis.

@draughtycatflap

Deniers are weird. I read an article last week about a nurse in a heavily republican state in the US. She said on her covid ward a man was gasping for breath and trying to tell her it was all a hoax. She quite bluntly stated in the article that at least when they are intubated they shut up.

I have no words!

It does seem worse than usual and we aren't seeing the results of Christmas yet. I live in a cul de sac, only 2 of the 8 houses didn't have people staying at Christmas. One house had 3 visitors cars on their drive, people only went home yesterday. It is likely going to be horrific come the middle of January.

Care homes and hospitals are short of staff, one of my children is a nurse and covid positive, local care home has one third of the staff off with it. I hope the Oxford vaccine is approved this week and please God don't let this govt mess up the distribution like the mess up pretty well everything.

@mrshoho

There is a post tonight on our local fb from a frontline dr at UCLH saying NHS in N London is gone past breaking point. All ICU beds and ward beds are full and patients in A&E needing beds but there is nowhere. These are Barnet, Royal Free, UCLH and North Middlesex hospitals. This situation seems much worse than the usual winter crisis.

What happens when it reaches this point ? Do they start shipping people to other parts of the country?

@LangClegsInSpace

Ah fucking hell this is my local hospital.

This isn't the first major incident related to oxygen supply in this pandemic and I'm sure it won't be the last. From the article it seems that the problem is mostly because of the infrastructure that delivers the oxygen to the wards.

Why the FUCK didn't they sort this out in the summer when we had some breathing space?

QE is a bit of a shithole (no disrespect to the amazing staff there ) and in normal times most patients would consider being diverted to Kings or St Thomas's as an upgrade, but this is really quite scary.

It's mine too Lang. Considering the absolutely colossal amount of building which has happened in Greenwich Borough the last 10-15 years it's no wonder QE is so downtrodden, London needs more hospitals. I was up there with my young DC over the summer and it was absolutely chaos then, can't even imagine it now.

@Babyroobs - yes, in theory. Happens not uncommonly during a normal winter. And it works well.

But hospitals in Sussex, Kent and Essex are filling up. Hospitals in Suffolk and Norfolk are cancelling anything non-urgent. The surge of cases in the East of England means hospitals there are struggling with massive staff shortages.

I don't know about hospitals to the north and west of London, but can't imagine there's much difference.

Which means it's only a matter of time til we run out of places for those patients to be sent.

And the ambulances that would transport those patients are sitting outside A+E with patients in them they can't unload. Or, if they're driving a patient 3 hours up the road to a hospital with space, and 3 hours back, they're not out picking up 999 calls. Calls which, in London, are up 50% on normal. So the last think you want is ambulances tied up transporting patients further and further to find a bed.

One major incident in one hospital is neither here nor there. But slack in the system as a whole is fast running out.

@Anotherpointofview1

Major incidents happen every year. In some hospitals it happens multiple times, during the winter aka respiratory season. The memory holing of this is one of the most ridiculous aspects of this whole covid hysteria.

Nice to hear you think the THOUSANDS who have lost loved ones, or may be in fear for their own lives or the lives of people close to them, are being ridiculous and hysterical @Anotherpointofview1 ... how about learning some empathy, or failing that, not using nasty reductive terms to dismiss other people's feelings?

What happens when it reaches this point ? Do they start shipping people to other parts of the country?

Typically yes. In London they can use other London hospitals first. I believe they are at 100% capacity for ventilators in London and at least 1 hospital had also run out of CPAP capacity yesterday. The question is where and what happens if the areas they move patients too also run out of capacity. Cases and admissions are rising pretty much everywhere.

In the US they are using ED beds for ICU patients when the surrounding hospitals don’t have capacity either. I’m guessing that’s not ideal though.

Those on here who bang on about how hospitals have alerts every winter seem to me to be displaying a startling lack of critical thinking and basic maths.

Here, I'll lay it out for you:

Normal winter: Bad, sometimes overwhelmed.

Normal winter + novel virus. Worse, often overwhelmed.

Normal winter + novel virus that is growing exponentially through the population: getting out of control.

Normal winter + novel virus that is growing exponentially through the population + widespread staff shortages due to said virus: out of control and no place to go.

HTH

Yes was going to say similar to Motorina. I don't know where else there will be available beds. Hertfordshire and Essex are experiencing similar. I'm in NW London and our hospital has reported the ambulances queuing outside. It has surprisingly seemed very quiet today and hardly any sirens.

@Babyroobs

As an ICU Consultant in one of those hospitals mentioned in North London, yes, it is extremely difficult at the moment, but there is excellent communication and teamwork happening almost hourly to keep all patients safe. We are transferring patients between hospitals where absolutely necessary to accommodate increasing numbers in individual trusts, ambulances are on temporary diverts to hospitals with more capacity at the moment, leave has been cancelled etc... lots of things happening....

It is much worse than the usual winter crisis due to a multitude of different reasons - the shear number of cases coming through the door, the significant decrease in staff due to their own personal illness, needing to isolate, or needing to shield (having a predominantly female nursing group means there are quite a few pregnant ones for example), and the inability to cohort covid patients with non-covid patients.

Patient getting increasingly younger too (I have personally reviewed patients between ages of 27-40 today with very few underlying conditions). Please continue to take this seriously and stay safe.