If not enough people take the vaccine?

[3littlewords]

If those eligible for the vaccine decline to have it for whatever reason, will it mean restrictions will be in place for longer? Or will it be a case off tough luck you refused the vaccine take your chances?
I know a quite few people who would be eligible for the vaccine soon either due to their age , job or ECV and around 50% say they aren't having it, if that's the case nationally will it be enough to reduce transmission enough to ease restrictions? Or do I know just know an unusually high amount of weird people that don't want the vaccine? 🤔

polka I mate of mine working in a vaccine clinic said they got offered the vaccines from no-shows rather than waste.
So you might get one very soon, fingers crossed.

[quote trulydelicious]@Wherediditgo

One of the easiest ways to convince people would be to hand some slightly exaggerated news story to the media in order to scare more people in to taking it.... like... I don’t know, a new strain perhaps

If anything, news about the new strain clearly hightlight how much we still don't know about this virus, the Covid vaccines and the unintended consequences of related medical treatment (e.g. one of the hypothesis is that the new strain was the result of convalescent plasma given to someone who was immunocompromised)

There's a lot of unknowns at present[/quote]
Exactly. I don't believe that the vaccines have been tested enough to ensure their safety when combined with Covid infection. For all we know the covid death rate will actually be higher in vaccinated low risk groups. The new strains make me less inclined to take the vaccine as they increase the chance of antibody dependent enhancement of infection. Unfortunately Andrew Wakefield's quackery has made it impossible to question vaccine safety without seeming like a complete nutter, even if the thing you're worried about has been observed in vaccine trials for other coronaviruses.

@QueenPawPaws

I'm ECV and mentioned to my surgery I will have it if someone cancels - I live maybe 300m from the surgery and can be there in minutes! They've done it before when I've needed an appointment, rung me and said there's a cancellation and can I come down now

Once the ECV people have been vaccinated I plan on doing the same 😁 I live very near my GP surgery and can be there in minutes. I hope you get yours soon!

[quote trulydelicious]@Wherediditgo

One of the easiest ways to convince people would be to hand some slightly exaggerated news story to the media in order to scare more people in to taking it.... like... I don’t know, a new strain perhaps

If anything, news about the new strain clearly hightlight how much we still don't know about this virus, the Covid vaccines and the unintended consequences of related medical treatment (e.g. one of the hypothesis is that the new strain was the result of convalescent plasma given to someone who was immunocompromised)

There's a lot of unknowns at present[/quote]
I guess it depends on how you interpret the information though. Your comment (and one further up) saying a new strain may make you more suspicious of the virus is probably from a mind with a higher level of critical thinking. MN can be skewed in this way - I think more intelligent people are over represented on here.

For clarity - I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I’m not anti-vax either. If I was in an at-risk group and was offered a vaccine I would take it. Because for me, the risk of the vaccine would be less than the risk of catching Covid.

I’m a healthy 30-something year old and I’m on the fence about the vaccine to be honest.

Just deeply suspicious of the media and the way they’ve reported throughout this whole debacle.

@ladylunchalot

I could've been vaccinated by now (nhs worker) but due to a severe penicillin allergy I'm not allowed to have the Pfizer vaccine. There are quite a few others in the same boat. Waiting patiently for the Oxford one as they think it will be fine for us. Have to say when the vaccine slots are being released on a daily basis for staff they are being filled within 20 minutes so uptake looks to be good.

I’m so pleased to hear they think the Oxford vaccine will be good for some of the people who can’t have Pfizer due to allergies.

More suspicious of the vaccine that should have said

@TheKeatingFive

Certain vaccines are required for entry into particular countries already

If you are referring to the Yellow Fever vaccine (which I have had by the way), it has been around for many years. It's not comparable to the Covid vaccines which have been given emergency approval and tested for a few months

[quote trulydelicious]@TheKeatingFive

Certain vaccines are required for entry into particular countries already

If you are referring to the Yellow Fever vaccine (which I have had by the way), it has been around for many years. It's not comparable to the Covid vaccines which have been given emergency approval and tested for a few months[/quote]
The covid vaccines or at least the oxford one from my reading has been through all the normal checks. I can't comment on others because I haven't researched them.

The process has been made faster by carrying out the stages simultaneous with different groups.

No stages in testing have been missed in the normal approval.

Obviously some people will still prefer to wait and watch for a while before deciding if the jab is for them. However it is no more dangerous than most vaccinations when it comes to testing procedures.

Personally I feel if you are willing to have the normal vaccinations recommended then you shouldn't have an issue with this one.

If you are anti vax in general then you probably are going to be worried no matter what anyone says.

Looking at some posts a narrative is being pushed to seed doubt. Have an opinion but don't plant false ideas in peoples heads. That really isn't on.

They're are some very specific concerns when it comes to a covid vaccine that aren't applicable when it comes to most other vaccines. The reason we've never had a vaccine for a coronavirus before is that previous attempts at producing vaccines have caused antibody dependent enhancement of disease or immune system hyper stimulation on infection with the coronavirus. There simply haven't been enough covid infections on vaccinated patients to exclude even a fairly common worsening of disease in vaccinated patients.
It's absolutely not the same as something like the flu vaccine where there is no expectation that the vaccine could make the disease worse.

But that would have shown up in the trials?

No, they stopped the trials when very few in the vaccine arm had actually contracted covid - there could easily be an increase in death or serious disease in vaccinated patients of 2-3% of cases that wouldn't show up in the data. Antibody dependent enhancement of infection is also more likely with different strains of the virus so it's quite concerning that the trials finished before we'd seen any significantly different variants.

If you are referring to the Yellow Fever vaccine (which I have had by the way), it has been around for many years. It's not comparable to the Covid vaccines which have been given emergency approval and tested for a few months

I’m not sure why that’s relevant, countries are free to restrict people from entering for a variety of reasons.

Plenty of countries are currently not permitting anyone from certain nations to enter their borders, so not a huge leap to stop the unvaccinated.

@QueenStromba

No, they stopped the trials when very few in the vaccine arm had actually contracted covid - there could easily be an increase in death or serious disease in vaccinated patients of 2-3% of cases that wouldn't show up in the data. Antibody dependent enhancement of infection is also more likely with different strains of the virus so it's quite concerning that the trials finished before we'd seen any significantly different variants.

They are current in this country and around the world deliberately infecting volunteers to test various scenarios.

At the end of the day the risk factor for the over 70s and very vulnerable are more from not getting the vaccine.

Any health young person can obviously take their time weighing up research or waiting to see if there are hidden dangers. That could however be more dangerous for some people with public facing jobs than others.

The Pfizer vaccine hasn’t skipped any part of the testing for safety and effectiveness. It wouldn’t have been given approval otherwise

It has met strict standards of safety, quality and effectiveness set out by the independent Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA).

Any coronavirus vaccine that is approved must go through all the clinical trials and safety checks all other licensed medicines go through. The MHRA follows international standards of safety.

I read somewhere on MN the statement “the vaccine was not rushed, it was expedited”

Subtle but important difference.

@Parker231

The Pfizer vaccine hasn’t skipped any part of the testing for safety and effectiveness

I don't think anyone is talking about 'skipping' steps. But what is undeniable is that mass vaccinations have not taken place for long enough to be able to determine potential late onset side effects.

@Parker231

The Pfizer vaccine hasn’t skipped any part of the testing for safety and effectiveness. It wouldn’t have been given approval otherwise

It has met strict standards of safety, quality and effectiveness set out by the independent Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA).

Any coronavirus vaccine that is approved must go through all the clinical trials and safety checks all other licensed medicines go through. The MHRA follows international standards of safety.

The trial would have been fine for influenza, it's insufficient for a member of a family of viruses which has seen multiple severe reactions caused by infection in vaccinated subjects.

I think the people who don’t want it are loud (and allegedly quite often Russian bots). I think most people are sensible and will have it. And hopefully some of those who are a bit dubious will have it anyway to protect people they love.

@QueenStromba

They're are some very specific concerns when it comes to a covid vaccine that aren't applicable when it comes to most other vaccines. The reason we've never had a vaccine for a coronavirus before is that previous attempts at producing vaccines have caused antibody dependent enhancement of disease or immune system hyper stimulation on infection with the coronavirus. There simply haven't been enough covid infections on vaccinated patients to exclude even a fairly common worsening of disease in vaccinated patients. It's absolutely not the same as something like the flu vaccine where there is no expectation that the vaccine could make the disease worse.

This is concerning. You sound like you know about this stuff. Could a second 'natural' infection with COVID (ie with a new variant) or even with another coronavirus - also cause complications such as enhancement of disease or hyper reaction?? Or is 'natural' immunity different??

Reason I ask is both my DC have had COVID. It wasn't all that mild in either of them. This disease worries me. It seems tricky.

@Parker231

Also pharmaceutical companies have some leeway as to how trials are designed (e.g. how long to run the trials for, which participants to include/exclude, use a placebo or a different vaccine in the control group, etc) - see the comment from QueenStromba above

So it is to be expected that some of these aspects will give rise to questions/concerns amongst prospective recipients as well

That's why I find the inane hype and successism of some of these comments puzzling and completely unbalanced

@2020quelhorreur

I think the people who don’t want it are loud

Quite the opposite. Anyone here who dares to express the most minute concern is quickly shouted down by the pro-Covid vaccine mob. Posts reported, threads deleted, etc.

@2020quelhorreur

I think the people who don’t want it are loud (and allegedly quite often Russian bots). I think most people are sensible and will have it. And hopefully some of those who are a bit dubious will have it anyway to protect people they love.

I don't think they are all Russian bots, I think many of them are people hating eco fascists who see humanity as a plague species that needs to be culled.

A GP friend of mine was vaccinating people up to 6.30pm on Christmas Eve. They had some spare vaccines so she put a call out for NHS frontline workers to come forward. She ended up vaccinating a lot of the other doctor, dentist and pharmacist school mums who jumped at the chance. I will follow their lead, the ones who studied for years in their chosen profession and who have expert medical knowledge, not the idiotic school mum who started posting about being “chipped”.

@2020quelhorreur

I think the people who don’t want it are loud (and allegedly quite often Russian bots). I think most people are sensible and will have it. And hopefully some of those who are a bit dubious will have it anyway to protect people they love.

Yep

We have had a round of vaccinating the mobile over 80s , are starting on care homes and a round of health and social care workers. All the old people want it and although a lot of people expressed caution when we knew the vaccine was imminent, the vast majority of staff had their shot.