To think we have gone collectively insane in our response to covid

[PlumsAreNotTheOnlyFruit]

This is something I have thought for a while. I feel like we are in the grip of insanity when it comes to our response to covid.

We seem to be prepared to destroy our economy, get into massive debt, surrender our freedom and mess up our children's education over covid.

It's a virus which can and will spread, and now seems more virulent than ever. Unless you have a total eradication policy, which is impossible for the UK to implement now anyway, then only mitigation is possible.

All of Europe whatever their policies have been now have many cases. Why do we have to suffer covid AND watch our businesses go under with a potential decade of economic misery.

How many lives have been saved by our policies? Has anyone even done an analysis? We reject cancer drugs because we say they are too expensive for the number of years of life saved. We allow polluting diesel vehicles to drive in urban areas despite the 40,000 who die each year from the effects of air pollution. Why is covid different?

I am cross that we haven't thrown everything at expanding health care capacity since March and instead have spent our money paying people not to work after closing things down.

Right now I feel that the virus will continue to spread whatever we do and that that our focus should be on shielding the most vulnerable until they can be vaccinated. I realise that isn't likely to be 100% effective but neither are our present policies.

@herecomestheSon

given we have a vaccine we need to

a) roll it out as soon as possible
b) be really careful till then

is this not common sense? even for people with a faltering understanding of science and stats?

I almost think this. Except that I don't think being really careful should include ordering businesses to close again. I think a lot are on the brink and won't survive this.

To me the lesson from the new strain of covid isn't that we should keep introducing more and more stringent measures in a probably futile effort to control it.

It is that it is impossible to stop it and that we should mitigate as far as possible and try to salvage what we can of our economy.

Anyway if the thread fills up, thank you for the discussion.

Thanks @PlumsAreNotTheOnlyFruit
A really interesting and balanced thread. One of the best in this topic!

Unless all this new talk of mutations freak people out enough but I think a lot of people too suspicious of everything now

Backfired on them though didnt it? They didnt expect other countries to react the way they did.

Cue thousands of lorry drivers and one blocked toilet. Huge sanitation issues where they cant wash or keep clean. Bad in normal times but in a pandemic ........tut tut.

Thatll teach them to use the media to scare ppl into compliance Fucking Sage didnt factor that in did they.

Oh and a Government so hot on hand washing etc has done fuck all to alleviate the situation in Kent. Yet they are at their podiums at those press conferences wanging on about hand washing and asking more and more of the public
Yeah. We see you. ..............well some of us do anyway.

Oh and i dont think the people of Kent will be very happy to be blamed if there is a spike in cases. Seeing as how it wouldnt be their fault.

Have any scientists on Sage or NERVETAG etc released a statement voicing their concerns about how the situation in Kent could cause a spike? Considering this is supposed to be all about the health of the nation and "fighting" the virus.

Or are they keeping quiet because they know the scare tactics they used are responsible for the fucking mess.

There was a report to the Commons Science and Technology select committee televised on Sky TV this morning. It was very illuminating. I'm sure it's available if you want to know what information our experts are feeding to our government.

After listening to it, I am incredibly proud of our British scientists right now, to be honest.

@Noellodee

After listening to it, I am incredibly proud of our British scientists right now, to be honest.

Me too All incredible

Re being threatened..I don;t feel threatened at all. I feel irritated and angry. But not threatened in the least. The Government are a laughing stock throughout the world now. Madness. Just madness. No fear in the least..

@loulouljh

Re being threatened..I don;t feel threatened at all. I feel irritated and angry. But not threatened in the least. The Government are a laughing stock throughout the world now. Madness. Just madness. No fear in the least..

They are really not a laughing stock.

I have no idea why people cling on to this.

Apparently Hancock said he expects normality "by 2022"
What happened to bloody summer?
This is just horrific now.

They really are a laughing stock. I spend my days speaking to people around the world-today Greece and Singapore for example. . They are laughing at this little island which is isolated (ports shut) with a nutty PM, no Brexit, a failing Covid strategy. They really are!!!!

@loulouljh

They really are a laughing stock. I spend my days speaking to people around the world-today Greece and Singapore for example. . They are laughing at this little island which is isolated (ports shut) with a nutty PM, no Brexit, a failing Covid strategy. They really are!!!!

I don’t buy it. Maybe the people you works to.

We are no different to Europe and maybe we’ll offer a cheaper vaccine and already do well at genome sequencing. What are they bringing to the table other than laughing?

Talk to

I believe that it is far too late for a suppression strategy to work in the UK. In any case it doesn't seem to have worked in any country in Europe and those are the countries most similar to us

Ok, so what's the alternative to some degree of lockdown to get levels back down? Because countries that have just let it go have mass graves and bodies piling up outside hospitals. They won't just be people dying of covid they'll be the people dying of other things that can't get care.

I'd really love to see an alternative, but I don't think there is one.

Of course once levels are back down, suppression would still be possible. Suppression was possible in the summer, rates were relatively low but they did 'eat out to help out' instead, then decided to open schools with no extra funding and no mitigation against airborne spread.

What are they bringing to the table other than laughing?

Less death.
Cohesive plans.
Timely action.
Trust and respect for their leaders.
Leaders who follow science and adjust their protective strategies swiftly.
Decent pandemic relief packages for those unable to work.
Economic strategies for recovery.

And not blundering into a no-deal Brexit during a pandemic in a few days time...

@cbt944

What are they bringing to the table other than laughing?

Less death.
Cohesive plans.
Timely action.
Trust and respect for their leaders.
Leaders who follow science and adjust their protective strategies swiftly.
Decent pandemic relief packages for those unable to work.
Economic strategies for recovery.

And not blundering into a no-deal Brexit during a pandemic in a few days time...

Sounds like it helps them.

At least we help others.

If people are laughing too hard they can opt out.

People are so down on themselves it’s nuts. So much self loathing.

As for having a hard time was NYC, Italy and Spain also amusing?

We’ve reached the limit of what we can open up seems like an absolute age away. It was only the end of July wasn’t it?

At least we help others.

What?! When? How? What a strange response.

Meanwhile, around the world... Everyone is helping out and looking out for other countries during this pandemic. It is one of the beautiful things that has emerged.

@cbt944

At least we help others.

What?! When? How? What a strange response.

Meanwhile, around the world... Everyone is helping out and looking out for other countries during this pandemic. It is one of the beautiful things that has emerged.

As I said hopefully vaccine

45% genome sequencing

Look for the good instead of continuously looking for the worst about where you live

Facing reality might help. The world is dismayed and horrified and full of pity and amazement at the path the UK has taken throughout the pandemic. There are vaccines in development all over the world.

Oh come on. Italy, Belgium, USA, France, Spain yeh they all have time for that. And not many vaccines are nearly ready or cheap and deployable.

Anyway it’s too irritating. Wallow all you want I don’t care. Go for it. Or move.

I am not wallowing. I am outside, in the world, looking in.

You are right, the US is in a terrible state, also.

@PlumsAreNotTheOnlyFruit

This is something I have thought for a while. I feel like we are in the grip of insanity when it comes to our response to covid.

We seem to be prepared to destroy our economy, get into massive debt, surrender our freedom and mess up our children's education over covid.

It's a virus which can and will spread, and now seems more virulent than ever. Unless you have a total eradication policy, which is impossible for the UK to implement now anyway, then only mitigation is possible.

All of Europe whatever their policies have been now have many cases. Why do we have to suffer covid AND watch our businesses go under with a potential decade of economic misery.

How many lives have been saved by our policies? Has anyone even done an analysis? We reject cancer drugs because we say they are too expensive for the number of years of life saved. We allow polluting diesel vehicles to drive in urban areas despite the 40,000 who die each year from the effects of air pollution. Why is covid different?

I am cross that we haven't thrown everything at expanding health care capacity since March and instead have spent our money paying people not to work after closing things down.

Right now I feel that the virus will continue to spread whatever we do and that that our focus should be on shielding the most vulnerable until they can be vaccinated. I realise that isn't likely to be 100% effective but neither are our present policies.

I couldn't agree more. And I am from a nonEU country, have been living in Spain for 15 years. The approach to solving this crisis is insane everywhere. The only conclusion I've come with is that all this situation is created in order to make the rich richer and more powerful and to make the middle class and the poor poorer and a lot easier to manipulate. And all this in this era of information, when we should organize and decide not to follow these silly totally improvised rules.