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Covid

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To think we have gone collectively insane in our response to covid

999 replies

PlumsAreNotTheOnlyFruit · 22/12/2020 08:35

This is something I have thought for a while. I feel like we are in the grip of insanity when it comes to our response to covid.

We seem to be prepared to destroy our economy, get into massive debt, surrender our freedom and mess up our children's education over covid.

It's a virus which can and will spread, and now seems more virulent than ever. Unless you have a total eradication policy, which is impossible for the UK to implement now anyway, then only mitigation is possible.

All of Europe whatever their policies have been now have many cases. Why do we have to suffer covid AND watch our businesses go under with a potential decade of economic misery.

How many lives have been saved by our policies? Has anyone even done an analysis? We reject cancer drugs because we say they are too expensive for the number of years of life saved. We allow polluting diesel vehicles to drive in urban areas despite the 40,000 who die each year from the effects of air pollution. Why is covid different?

I am cross that we haven't thrown everything at expanding health care capacity since March and instead have spent our money paying people not to work after closing things down.

Right now I feel that the virus will continue to spread whatever we do and that that our focus should be on shielding the most vulnerable until they can be vaccinated. I realise that isn't likely to be 100% effective but neither are our present policies.

OP posts:
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Iheartmysmart · 23/12/2020 12:42

Not quite sure how that is patronising but whatever.

Iheartmysmart · 23/12/2020 12:44

And actually thinking about it, why does your anxiety trump the views of those who stand to lose everything because of what is happening at the moment? Is anxiety more important than homelessness, hunger and poverty?

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 23/12/2020 12:54

How do you know those things haven’t happened to me?

avoter · 23/12/2020 13:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Cornettoninja · 23/12/2020 13:23

@avoter Hmm don’t wet yourself in excitement will you? That’s alarmist bollocks.

PlumsAreNotTheOnlyFruit · 23/12/2020 13:25

@avoter I don't think they plan to vaccinate children at all at the moment as they are low risk.

I see vaccination as a big part of the solution to solving the problems with Covid.

But I don't want more lockdowns with businesses ordered to close. As several people have said if there has been a cost benefit analysis of lives saved versus money spent it doesn't seem to have been shared.

OP posts:
TheSunIsStillShining · 23/12/2020 13:33

@avoter

  1. Reliably batshit crazy source.
  2. no vaccine has been tested or approved for u18. So mass inoculation of u18 is not a possibility atm.
  1. REALLY??? This is in the first sentence
share his general message that the Pandemic is over!

Can we ask MN to delete utter bollocks?

avoter · 23/12/2020 13:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TheKeatingFive · 23/12/2020 13:41

Fgs they haven’t tested the vaccine on children so no they definitely aren’t going to be injecting without consent.

What do people get out of spreading bollocks? Confused

avoter · 23/12/2020 13:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/12/2020 13:51

That quote from the CDC is deeply worrying, avoter
So much for "completely safe" and "no risk at all" ...

vickyp0llard · 23/12/2020 13:54

Of course they can't do a meaningful long-term cost-benefit analysis. If someone loses their business/home today, becomes obese from stress or starts drinking/doing drugs to cope, then dies from overdose/alcohol poisoning/heart attack in 5-10 years time, that won't be attributed to lockdown. There'll be so many victims of our policies over the next 5-10 years that will never be counted, the government will just pat themselves on the back for "saving" X lives that Neil Ferguson modelled would have died from covid.

Delatron · 23/12/2020 13:58

Yes and it follows that we can’t claim Sweden has done badly as at least they won’t have this lockdown fallout for the next ten years... I know where I’d rather be:

Xenia · 23/12/2020 14:48

I would rather people could just post things and if they are over the top we can just ignore it or comment on it rather than having it deleted.

The lockdowns are not really working anyway much now so we might as well abandon them and let people be free again to take their own risks.

Cornettoninja · 23/12/2020 14:55

In theory I agree with you @Xenia but there are a lot of persuasive people out there who are regurgitating some really damaging false information. You don’t know who’s reading this and what they do with the information.

I don’t know what you have/haven’t seen but Avoter posted some absolute bullshit playing on peoples fears for their children. People are already alarmed, something like that could tip someone over the edge. If it was based on reality then that would be one thing but it’s not.

As an aside I think you have some pretty damaging dangerous views yourself but at least you don’t hide the fact they’re your opinion not fact.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/12/2020 15:00

Oh look - I've just been sent a link (sorry it's the dreaded Mail) and it seems even the sainted Nicola can't keep to the rules:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9080743/Nicola-Sturgeon-apologises-spotted-pub-without-wearing-face-mask.html

Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/12/2020 15:02

Report from the BBC which is (allegedly) more reputable:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55419564

alreadytaken · 23/12/2020 15:43

90 year olds with dementia dont get put on ventilators. That would be cruel so it isnt done. Quite surprising how few people have any idea how health care works.

The average age in ICU in the first wave was 60, last time I looked it was 59 in this wave. It's probably dropped further now.

There are some businesses doing very well out of lockdown - and not just Amazon. Many businesses forced to close could sell online. I'm aware of one close to me doing so well in lockdown from online sales it didnt reopen its shop, used the space to process more online orders instead. Another new business started up and has been raking in the money.

Although some businesses cant sell online or help themselves others could and should.

Countries with least economic damage are those who have controlled the virus. It's not a choice between lockdown and the economy, you have to control the virus to save the economy.

Really amusing how people who cant stay in themselves, because of their mental health you know, are perfectly happy to suggest others do it. How about we kill off all those so worried about their mental health that they have to go around spreading the virus. Dont like that idea - but you'd happily kill off anyone older as long as you dont have to do the deed yourself.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 23/12/2020 16:43

Well said already.

southeastdweller · 23/12/2020 16:49

@alreadytaken

90 year olds with dementia dont get put on ventilators. That would be cruel so it isnt done. Quite surprising how few people have any idea how health care works.

The average age in ICU in the first wave was 60, last time I looked it was 59 in this wave. It's probably dropped further now.

There are some businesses doing very well out of lockdown - and not just Amazon. Many businesses forced to close could sell online. I'm aware of one close to me doing so well in lockdown from online sales it didnt reopen its shop, used the space to process more online orders instead. Another new business started up and has been raking in the money.

Although some businesses cant sell online or help themselves others could and should.

Countries with least economic damage are those who have controlled the virus. It's not a choice between lockdown and the economy, you have to control the virus to save the economy.

Really amusing how people who cant stay in themselves, because of their mental health you know, are perfectly happy to suggest others do it. How about we kill off all those so worried about their mental health that they have to go around spreading the virus. Dont like that idea - but you'd happily kill off anyone older as long as you dont have to do the deed yourself.

I don’t like your snide and judgemental attitude to mental health at a time when so many people are suffering to keep their heads on. Have some empathy.
scubadive · 23/12/2020 17:03

@alreadytaken who have a very superior attitude and make a lot of statements as if they are facts but you do t support anything you say with facts.

scubadive · 23/12/2020 17:09

We've had masks, lockdowns, distancing etc, for all of 9 months now, and they've done nothing. The virus transmits like all respiratory illnesses, on surfaces, in the air. You cant stop it.
It's inevitable.

This pandemic has been in the making for a long time, modern medicine, extending the life span, poor food choices , lack of exercise. And boom the population is partially disabled, and quite frankly un bloody healthy. We are the sick man of Europe. Most of this is self inflicted, 75% of Britons are either obese of overweight, or way past the 3 score and 10.

So much so, that people are unable to give themselves basic care like going to the toilet or feed themselves. Some people don't even know who they are. This is in fact a recent phenomena, previously people died earlier, and not in the decrepit state we have now.
I think in the future we need to look at palliative care rather pumping people full of drugs to keep them alive, along with extending the care from families via the use of carers. It's been a costly mistake in the end. We wouldn't treat an animal like this so why the obsession from the public and medical science on extending life at any cost. Including complete decimation of the wealth, health, education, and society underneath.
And we have the gall to compare ourselves to other nations, Jesus wept, we have an epidemic of unhealthy people, especially, comparatively to the Far East, our mental and physical health strategy is in dire need of serious introspective public discourse. It's a mess, a costly mess created by a lack of accountability on a personal and governmental level.

Add that to the fact the general person on the street has no resilience whatsoever, just people complaining and crying with hysteria every where. Certainly on social media...............

Economically, the boomer generation, generally those making the most noise are also sitting on 5.5 tn worth of assets thanks in the main to the 10-15% compound interest gained over the lifetime of owning properties. Demanding the sacrifice of those born and those not born is a clear case of selfish interest before everyone else. It's appalling.

This pandemic is an example of the swiss cheese effect, a perfect storm of circumstances all combining to present an ethical dilemma, the Trolley dilemma. Who do we save?
This over reactive scorched earth policy is reeking havoc amongst society, I know we don't wish to see death, however for a 100% of all people it is inevitable. It's an uncomfortable truth.

Facts based on uncomplete data are often thrown around to be used as evidence to support an argument.
What's interesting is, the Inacrc data does not tie in the government message, according to witty and co we were going to be overwhelmed in September. It never happened did it..
The only one true fact is we all die sooner or later, but at what consequence to everyone else.

Yes agree with a lot of this, we are a very unhealthy nation in general and being overweight/type 2 diabetes is strongly linked with poor covid outcomes.

Yet the govt has locked us down leading to lots of people over eating, over drinking and the gyms/sports clubs have been shut, the effect is that the health of the general population is going to be worse storing up more demands on the NHSfor the future with an economy tgat won’t be able to sustain current funding.

scubadive · 23/12/2020 17:10

Oh sorry I was agreeing with a post previously but have inadvertently copied it as my post.

scubadive · 23/12/2020 17:10

Can someone tell me how you copy a post to comment on it, thank you.

herecomestheSon · 23/12/2020 17:18

@scubadive

Can someone tell me how you copy a post to comment on it, thank you.
press the blue "quote" underneath the original to get this

or

copy and paste and put either side without a space *

to get this

copy and paste and put ... either side without a space

or put @ in front of the username
@scubadive

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