To think we have gone collectively insane in our response to covid

[PlumsAreNotTheOnlyFruit]

This is something I have thought for a while. I feel like we are in the grip of insanity when it comes to our response to covid.

We seem to be prepared to destroy our economy, get into massive debt, surrender our freedom and mess up our children's education over covid.

It's a virus which can and will spread, and now seems more virulent than ever. Unless you have a total eradication policy, which is impossible for the UK to implement now anyway, then only mitigation is possible.

All of Europe whatever their policies have been now have many cases. Why do we have to suffer covid AND watch our businesses go under with a potential decade of economic misery.

How many lives have been saved by our policies? Has anyone even done an analysis? We reject cancer drugs because we say they are too expensive for the number of years of life saved. We allow polluting diesel vehicles to drive in urban areas despite the 40,000 who die each year from the effects of air pollution. Why is covid different?

I am cross that we haven't thrown everything at expanding health care capacity since March and instead have spent our money paying people not to work after closing things down.

Right now I feel that the virus will continue to spread whatever we do and that that our focus should be on shielding the most vulnerable until they can be vaccinated. I realise that isn't likely to be 100% effective but neither are our present policies.

@Pootle40

100% agree. We have a government that is out of its depth. Has been late with actions and called off the last lock down clearly to early as BOJO was concerned about moaning posh back benchers. It’s worth note these were the same idiotic MPs that have stopped an appropriate brexit deal so far.

How votes for these rich people?

@byvirtue

We need to stop mass testing and utilise that network of testing centres and staff to vaccinate instead. If we can report that 37,000 people a day have tested positive for coronavirus we can be vaccinating that number of people through the same network.

I’m sick of the scaremongering and restrictions and want to see some positive action from the government on the vaccine which they have long touted as they way out of this. What are they waiting for? Utilising testing centres alongside medical hubs is the way out of this.

I would much rather see daily reporting on the number of vaccines given out rather than the number of positive CV tests!

Interesting idea

to people who 'absolutely have to' visit the range or take their kid to the park.

Yeah, absolutely. All those selfish bastards making sure their kids get exercise and fresh air, why on earth would they prioritise their kids welfare?

"With the vaccine roll out gathering pace, would it not make more sense for the older generation (over 65’s) to just stay in for 6m. It must be possible."

There is an issue with multi-generational households though. One suggestion I've seen is that the young adult members in those households could be financially incentivised to move to accommodation in hotels, 'nightingale hostels', air b n bs, until vaccination's completed. Obviously where the younger generation is caring for the older, they would need to be replaced by domiciliary carers with ppe, testing etc, and also being financially incentivised to restrict contacts.

It would be expensive but so is lockdown. It would also require a lot of organisation. It also would not be 100% effective - but then nor is any measure. I don't know if any research has been done to show what the overall effect of that set of measures would be.

Btw I don't think the over 65s would have to stay in completely - walks outside alone would be relatively low risk? And would it be over 65 or more like over 75 - I'm not sure how quickly the risk profile rises after 65?

Just found this and agree with OP 100%.

Countries have responded differently but are all getting a second wave.

I think people are going to die whatever response different governments make. It will just be spread over a longer time period.

@Jourdain11

I think an automatic criminal record would be a good deterrent too. People who take their children to the shops unnecessarily should have them removed by Social Services. A community network should be set up with financial incentives for those who report on their neighbours and friends who are flouting the rules.

😁🤣

@TheClaws
I'm so surprisedMercy Boothagrees with the OP! (Not really.)

Lots of people do. No need to single one poster out. Can we try and keep this civil?

I can no longer tell what is parody and what isnt on this site.

[quote hollyangel]@madhairday I don't think that BMJ article has much data to work off, it looks like it only focuses on a very small sample of people. We won't truly know suicide figures until next year.

That article does also say the following about the impact of an economic crisis on suicide rates. Can you imagine how bad the next economic crisis will be?

''Of greatest concern, is the effect of economic damage from the pandemic. One study reported that after the 2008 economic crisis, rates of suicide increased in two thirds of the 54 countries studied, particularly among men and in countries with higher job losses.''

I've seen a number of articles from paramedics and emergency room doctors saying that they can see an increase in suicide attempts already. See image attached that mentions a nearly doubling in daily suicide attempts from 22 to 37 per day on their watch.

www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/newsbeat-54740033

[/quote]
Very sad, Holly. I'm not trying to minimise, just to go carefully and apply checks where hyperbole is concerned and taking into account the Samaritans position that where suicide is used as a weapon to threaten people to go a certain way then suicidal ideation goes up - a very real and sad phenomena. It's all horrible and I hope and pray these numbers come down soon, and I completely agree about the long term societal affects being utterly dismal.
I just don't see any other way through this, and my position is that very sadly the greater spread of covid, the more these things will be affected anyway, so containing it is the best and kindest thing we can do in the long term.

The point about suicide figures is that they’ll take some time to materialise. People whose lives have been torpedoed now due to restrictions and economic devastations will be a higher suicide risk for a long time to come.

That’s the problem with how this has been presented from the start. Covid deaths are immediate and tangible. The immense cost of lockdowns (economic, social, health wise, opportunities) will be felt much longer term and are much, much more difficult to quantify.

Thus it’s so easy for people to gloss over them now. We will deeply regret not taking these costs more seriously in the years to come.

@Jourdain11

I think an automatic criminal record would be a good deterrent too. People who take their children to the shops unnecessarily should have them removed by Social Services. A community network should be set up with financial incentives for those who report on their neighbours and friends who are flouting the rules.

Wtf 😳😂 I honestly can't tell what is real or not on here anymore.

I'm sure social services have all the time in the world to handle children of perfectly normal parents, just what do you think they do all day sit and drink cups of tea?

Th recent firebreak in Wales certainly helped reduce positive cases...

Countries have responded differently but are all getting a second wave.

Thing is, though, there's no second wave - not in this country, anyway. Vast increases in testing capacity since Feb/March have inevitably pinpointed thousands of extra positive cases - positive cases being the operative term. Not deaths, and deaths are the only figures that matter. Deaths since April/May have been barely any different from any other year, yet we're still bombarded with however many thousands tested positive today.

Even if the PCR test is fit for purpose (and I read someone upthread defending it because of cancer diagnoses and something else - meningitis? - but as I understand it the benefits of using it to mass test populations are dubious), it's still just recording people who test positive for the virus in their system. Not resulting illness, not infectiousness to others, and certainly not deaths. The daily spouting of new infection numbers in their thousands is hysterical scaremongering.

@fungussingstheblues

Countries have responded differently but are all getting a second wave.

Thing is, though, there's no second wave - not in this country, anyway. Vast increases in testing capacity since Feb/March have inevitably pinpointed thousands of extra positive cases - positive cases being the operative term. Not deaths, and deaths are the only figures that matter. Deaths since April/May have been barely any different from any other year, yet we're still bombarded with however many thousands tested positive today.

Even if the PCR test is fit for purpose (and I read someone upthread defending it because of cancer diagnoses and something else - meningitis? - but as I understand it the benefits of using it to mass test populations are dubious), it's still just recording people who test positive for the virus in their system. Not resulting illness, not infectiousness to others, and certainly not deaths. The daily spouting of new infection numbers in their thousands is hysterical scaremongering.

This. 100%

I agree that there is no ‘second wave’ - it is simply a virus behaving like a virus

@Madhairday but we aren't really containing it and our policies are sending so many small businesses to the wall. They will cause mass unemployment.

I look at some of the local businesses in my area and I feel so sorry for them. They do everything right, follow all the government guidelines and the government just pulls the rug from under them again and again. You can hear the despair when they have to cancel events at the last minute again and again. These people will end up bankcrupt and dependent on the state.

Half the time I am not convinced that these government ordered closures will have much effect on the infection rates anyway. Stopping outdoor tennis coaching during the November lockdown etc.

Surely deaths are not the only significant concern?
Hospitalisations would be a factor too?
Because more people needing medical attention in a hospital setting than we have capacity for is pretty disasterous.

@madhairday I totally understand the need not to weaponise suicides. I definitely see where you're coming from. But at the
moment, I don't think any emphasis is being put on protecting these people's mental health.

As @TheKeatingFive said, Covid deaths are v easily quantifiable and someone is directly responsible for them. Anything else that goes wrong in society will be harder to verify until it's too late.

We’re not vaccinating at nearly the speed we need to. Why is this? Agree divert testing capacity to vaccinations or get the army in?

I seem to remember that the risk of non essential shops being open had been assessed as very low, but the decision was taken during the last lockdown to close them to send a more coherent message.

There is not, and never has been, since the first lockdown when you weren't supposed to do anything (not eager to go back to that) a coherent message, so it seems unfair that they decided to potentially put people out of business for it.

I agree OP. But unfortunately much of the public seem in favour of stronger lockdowns and blaming others for not doing enough to 'stop the virus'.

[quote LivinLaVidaLoki]@TheClaws
I'm so surprisedMercy Boothagrees with the OP! (Not really.)

Lots of people do. No need to single one poster out. Can we try and keep this civil?[/quote]
Apologies. I don't think I was uncivil though - certainly no more than those saying anyone elderly or vulnerable should take their chances with the virus - if they die, that's just natural selection, isn't it?

@Jourdain11 That is one of the most disgusting things I think I've ever read on here. Reported to MN.

[quote thelimitdoesnotexist]@Jourdain11 That is one of the most disgusting things I think I've ever read on here. Reported to MN.[/quote]
She was joking

Apologies. I don't think I was uncivil though - certainly no more than those saying anyone elderly or vulnerable should take their chances with the virus - if they die, that's just natural selection, isn't it?

What you did was personally attack someone.