To think we have gone collectively insane in our response to covid

[PlumsAreNotTheOnlyFruit]

This is something I have thought for a while. I feel like we are in the grip of insanity when it comes to our response to covid.

We seem to be prepared to destroy our economy, get into massive debt, surrender our freedom and mess up our children's education over covid.

It's a virus which can and will spread, and now seems more virulent than ever. Unless you have a total eradication policy, which is impossible for the UK to implement now anyway, then only mitigation is possible.

All of Europe whatever their policies have been now have many cases. Why do we have to suffer covid AND watch our businesses go under with a potential decade of economic misery.

How many lives have been saved by our policies? Has anyone even done an analysis? We reject cancer drugs because we say they are too expensive for the number of years of life saved. We allow polluting diesel vehicles to drive in urban areas despite the 40,000 who die each year from the effects of air pollution. Why is covid different?

I am cross that we haven't thrown everything at expanding health care capacity since March and instead have spent our money paying people not to work after closing things down.

Right now I feel that the virus will continue to spread whatever we do and that that our focus should be on shielding the most vulnerable until they can be vaccinated. I realise that isn't likely to be 100% effective but neither are our present policies.

Just read a report on the huge increase in domestic violence too during lockdown. Another thing that doesn’t matter since it’s not bloody COVID.

I do wish people would stop comparing us to the east Asian countries who could move quickly against the virus because of their experience of Sars 1 and didn't allow it to become endemic. They probably also benefit from a population with more immunity to coronaviruses than we do.

I do wonder if 'fresh legs' are needed at this stage of the pandemic. A new health sec and maybe some new advisors. People who aren't quite so invested in the current (failing imho) approach and who might look to see if there are other options. Wouldn't normally suggest this in the middle of a crisis but I am not sure those in charge are still able to think clearly on this. It is too much for them. Time for them to bring other voices around the table.

I've definitely noticed people in London being more cautious and pro-lockdown. I was a bit bemused when meeting friends in London that said they hadn't been on the tube or met indoors, whereas out in the provinces everyone is basically doing whatever they want. Parties, bars rammed when they were open, going round each others houses. Coffee shops full. In my town everyone really wants to support local businesses and high street is always busy.

I do wonder if 'fresh legs' are needed at this stage of the pandemic. A new health sec and maybe some new advisors. People who aren't quite so invested in the current (failing imho) approach and who might look to see if there are other options. Wouldn't normally suggest this in the middle of a crisis but I am not sure those in charge are still able to think clearly on this. It is too much for them. Time for them to bring other voices around the table.

Yes - I agree. I feel that our leaders are trapped in the sunk-cost fallacy, they're poured so much into lockdown/furlough they are probably too invested and too proud to back away from a failing approach.

I do wish people would stop comparing us to the east Asian countries who could move quickly against the virus because of their experience of Sars 1 and didn't allow it to become endemic.

Could you please not excuse the gov?

1. They should have had plans for this scenario
2. We are an island, loads of opportunities to shield the whole country
3. they are dicks in general

Not doing their job is why we are in this shit.
People are mistaking selfish individualism with democracy. What we see in the UK is the mock of a democracy.

@Frankly321 I think people who've had to keep opening and shut their businesses would describe this year as hell. So would those who've lost their jobs. Also those people who have lost loved ones but been unable to say goodbye or even attend their funerals due to Covid restrictions. I know four people who have lost parents and were unable to travel home due to travel restrictions.
My neighbour had her wedding cancelled due to Covid then her df passed away so he won't be there to give her away when she eventually does get married. Then she and her partner lost their jobs. I would call that a hell of a year.
The amount of sacrifice made by people with little evidence of it making a difference to transmission rates is ridiculous. Eg my neighbour had a thriving PT business until this year. We're in tier 4 so she's had to close again. If she ventilates and cleans her studio and keeps 2 metres from her clients who she is helping to be healthy, how can that be a bad thing?

@Madhairday

100% agree with what you said but unfortunately people are too thick - and they really are too stupid - to understand the points you have made.

January is going to be a disaster in this country and it will be brought about by those screaming that their rights are being eroded and that scientists are fooling us, but I’m willing to be the vast majority doing this squealing have zero scientific understanding or qualifications.

Lockdown-extending wallopers.

If the government had implemented a strict lockdown all year where no-one leaves home unless a key worker (enforced by the army and £5000 fines), 315 healthy parents and grandparents would have survived.

I hope this is a wind-up. If we'd had that sort of lockdown, you can bet that a hell of a lot more than 315 healthy people would have died from suicide, violence or being too scared to go to hospital. In fact that's probably already true in the current situation. People die all the time! More than 315 people die a year in road accidents - shall we ban driving? More than that die of obesity-related illnesses. Shall we throw anyone obese into a labour camp until their BMI is under 25? Listen to yourself.

@Wishing14 completely agree, until people can learn the art of healthy calm discussion again we’re set for more useless politicians and pointless media discourse.

There’s no clear answer to this for everyone, I can’t believe people can’t see that!

@Frankly321

We know that there are around 315 people under 60 with no health conditions who have died of COVID.

That is 315 people leaving behind DC and partners.

These people are collateral damage in the far-right prioritisation of the economy over lives.

If the government had implemented a strict lockdown all year where no-one leaves home unless a key worker (enforced by the army and £5000 fines), 315 healthy parents and grandparents would have survived.

You have to be a troll right?

I'm a massive leftie and even I can see the economic fallout.

If the government had implemented a strict lockdown all year where no-one leaves home unless a key worker (enforced by the army and £5000 fines), 315 healthy parents and grandparents would have survived.

And how many would be lost to other illnesses not being treated or suicide?

A great deal more.

I just googled you gov to see what the methodology is and anyone can join.

So if you think polls don’t reflect what you think join you if you like. I’m not really pro polls etc but joined so I can vote.

@Frankly321

We know that there are around 315 people under 60 with no health conditions who have died of COVID.

That is 315 people leaving behind DC and partners.

These people are collateral damage in the far-right prioritisation of the economy over lives.

If the government had implemented a strict lockdown all year where no-one leaves home unless a key worker (enforced by the army and £5000 fines), 315 healthy parents and grandparents would have survived.

Your post just highlights how extreme this all us. Far right? Seriously

Thesun
I am not excusing our government. It just bugs me when people compare us to east Asian countries like their approach is an option for us now.
We have never had to deal with a coronavirus epidemic before. We had plans for a flu epidemic. We therefore were going to let it run through. We changed horses midstream because the government were told 500,000 people would die. We have been on the backfoot ever since. The virus is endemic over here.

Our government are not up to this because it is literally a government of none of the talents put together to 'get brexit done'. They have always been massively out of their depth. To continue my football analogy I would sub the lot of them now and see how a cabinet who haven't tied themselves to locking us down as the only strategy would approach this.

@vickyp0llard many people in london don't have the luxury of isolating. I have a spare room, but most londoners don't. Even so, i only have 1 bathroom which would complicate isolating.

if 1 person tests positive for covid, the whole family/house share would get it. We would rather not get it in the first place even if in all likelihood, we would survive. I had a friend who was due to move back with her parents (as she felt she had overstayed her welcome isolating in a houseboat with her boyfriend) but her parents got covid and she had to stay with friends. So getting covid is not just a personal matter but can really affect the lives of your loved ones.

"I do wish people would stop comparing us to the east Asian countries who could move quickly against the virus because of their experience of Sars 1 and didn't allow it to become endemic. "

I know someone who decided to decamp to South Korea 'because they are handling this so much better than we are'. When he got there he discovered that if you test positive for Covid, you don't go home and self-isolate, you go straight into a 'secure medical facility' allocated by the authorities. You don't get to nip home for spare clothes or a phone charger, or to sort out your childcare arrangments. You might be lucky to get a single room, you might get ensuite facilities, or you might not.

Does it work? Well, cases are rising there again, albeit slowly.

@TheSunIsStillShining

I do wish people would stop comparing us to the east Asian countries who could move quickly against the virus because of their experience of Sars 1 and didn't allow it to become endemic.

Could you please not excuse the gov?

1. They should have had plans for this scenario
2. We are an island, loads of opportunities to shield the whole country
3. they are dicks in general

Not doing their job is why we are in this shit.
People are mistaking selfish individualism with democracy. What we see in the UK is the mock of a democracy.

Agree. Under the last Labour government the UK was highly regarded internationally in terms of pandemic planning. Things have gradually tailed off since then but Teresa May mothballed the pandemic planning committee and then BJ binned it altogether! Doubtless there would still have been faults with our response, but former members of the committee have said the UK would have been swifter to respond and more pro-active if the committee had still been in place.

@TheSunIsStillShining

I do wish people would stop comparing us to the east Asian countries who could move quickly against the virus because of their experience of Sars 1 and didn't allow it to become endemic.

Could you please not excuse the gov?

1. They should have had plans for this scenario
2. We are an island, loads of opportunities to shield the whole country
3. they are dicks in general

Not doing their job is why we are in this shit.
People are mistaking selfish individualism with democracy. What we see in the UK is the mock of a democracy.

Most European countries are in the same position.

@Frankly321 what about the parents whose cancer diagnoses and treatments were delayed far too long due to Covid panicking, leaving them with terminal cancer and their dcs orphans.

People whose behaviour makes the virus spread more, like by casually going in and out of friends houses, having parties etc.) make lockdowns more likely (with all the side effects like putting people more at risk of domestic violence and damaging businesses).

It doesn't matter how much you say lockdowns are bad. If you have lots of avoidable close contacts with other people just for fun, you are choosing to make lockdowns more likely. Actions speak louder than words.

Anyone priding themselves on 'not being a sheep', and breaking all the rules, should bear that in mind.

The people who accept the need for a lockdown and follow the rules are actually the ones taking practical steps to avoid longer lockdowns.

Totally agree OP. Lockdowns are an extreme response, and should only ever be an absolute last resort based on solid indisputable data, not as the default the second things seem a bit alarming.

An initial period was one thing, but it's 10 months and who honestly knows the extent of the non-Covid damage caused by this approach? The fact that people feel unable to question it for fear of reproach from some selfish bastard in the 1% is outrageous. Our MPs should DEMAND intense scrutiny of anything this significant, as they rightly did with Brexit (another socially and economically impactful event). Glad to see some balance here.

The division on this is so real.

I think a lot of people have chosen the blue pill. Lockdown, hide away, feel immediate comfort

Others have chosen the red pill. Face it, take responsibility and make the best decisions you can in the face of this adversity

People whose behaviour makes the virus spread more, like by casually going in and out of friends houses, having parties etc.) make lockdowns more likely

I'm sorry but people are not responsible for the batshit response of the government. Saying "you caused this by going out to Ikea and meeting your mates indoors" is like blaming victims for the actions of their abusers.

Quite happy to have things looked at again, and if they can prove that another approach is better then I would abide by that choice

I will not abide by a push to relax all restrictions whilst that examination is underway because one set of experts has already examined the situation and decided that lockdowns and restrictions is the best approach