BBC news...Matt Hancock says tier 4 could last for months due to this new strain

[ssd]

He must be joking.

Months of this there will be no businesses left

My dh says this too. He works in the electric industry. Without electric everything would fall to pieces. They are classed as essential workers but very overlooked in the public eye.

I take my twice daily walks in our local park (live in a flat in London so no garden) and I chat to one of the guys who works in the park every morning. He also noted that their work is so important; people leave all kinds of rubbish around, plus they also empty all the bins throughout the town centre and pick up the trash people drop everywhere. Their pay is absolutely AWFUL but you can imagine the mess and chaos in public spaces without them and how people would complain about it?

My dh says this too. He works in the electric industry. Without electric everything would fall to pieces. They are classed as essential workers but very overlooked in the public eye

My BIL works at a power station which again is pretty vital . I'm always thinking about the people that keep broadband and internet up and running. Without that noone could wfh.

The only way a full lockdown could maybe have worked, is if we did it straight away, had a population actually likely to comply with it, and closed all of our borders until we are all vaccinated.

As none of those things apply to us, lockdowns just cause financial hardship and prolonged misery. Not to mention they are actually dangerous for people prevented from accessing medical treatment.

Let those who need or want to shield do it, but let everyone else take sensible non lockdown measures and live their lives. People should be treated like adults and given the right to choose.

Will be pretty hard to enforce a lockdown at this point anyway. If those in charge can’t follow the rules, why should the rest of the population?

Thelittlediglaughed Actually that is not what I am saying at all. Just that eventually our immune systems will change but in the meantime we have to put food on the table and provide for our children. I was not saying herd immunity is our solution please do not try to change what I am saying. It’s all very well saying total lockdown if you can afford it. I don’t want to die either but there is being careful too and letting vaccine kick in. If you want to lock yourself away fine but I would rather continue to work and be careful. I haven’t been to a supermarket since March and have been incredibly isolated but I do go into school to teach because kids need school.

Lockdowns do not eradicate the virus they merely suppress transmissions but we cannot lock everything down or for an indefinite period therefore lockdowns don't work.

We depend on essential workers - define essential? We need food, electricity, gas, dentists, doctors, opticians, delivery services, food producers,manufacturing and processing, distribution centres, education, royal mail, refuse collectors, carers, prison officers,workmen to deal with emergencies, police, fire ... I could go on but you get the picture ... the virus is everywhere and it will spread - regardless of the the masks, space etc - we don't actually know how effective many of these measures are.

As none of those things apply to us, lockdowns just cause financial hardship and prolonged misery. Not to mention they are actually dangerous for people prevented from accessing medical treatment.

If we don't have lockdowns, what do you think will happen with the virus? Increased financial hardship and prolonged misery and so many sick people that accessing medical treatment will be even worse.

Alison20 Your solution might possibly work if you could ensure that every other person behaves responsibly. Experience is showing us that they don't, government members included. They would also have to act responsibly for a very long time and have no contact with vulnerable relatives for a very long time. I don't see it working. It isn't working. We can already see that.

Lockdowns do not eradicate the virus they merely suppress transmissions but we cannot lock everything down or for an indefinite period therefore lockdowns don't work. Ummm ... suppressing transmissions will be the ultimate way of eradicating the virus. That's more or less how the vaccine will work too. The first lockdown did work and we had a few months of freedom following it. it would have worked even better if we'd closed our boarders and been stricter about the easing up of lockdown but we have a shit government.

“If we don't have lockdowns, what do you think will happen with the virus?”

It will spread. The problem is, even with a full lockdown it will also spread. Albeit it at a slightly slower rate.

So if all a lockdown does is slow the rate of the spread, why ruin businesses and block other medical treatment?

What is wrong with letting those who need to shield do so, and letting everyone else take sensible measures?

The only convincing argument for a full lockdown was to save the nhs. But as we saw during the last peak, with the nightingales it is equipped to cope. And doctors are way more efficient at treating covid now that in April.

There is no good case for a full lockdown at this point.

I do think that the case for letting the very vulnerable shield (with proper financial help where needed) and everything else starting to open up, is getting strong and stronger.

Things just cannot go on like this. And people won't comply either. This situation is not sustainable, so it's going to have to be something else.

The only convincing argument for a full lockdown was to save the nhs. But as we saw during the last peak, with the nightingales it is equipped to cope.

The last peak wasn't in winter though. The NHS is almost at breaking point every winter as it is.

“The first lockdown did work and we had a few months of freedom following it.“

The good weather helped enormously. As with other coronaviruses, it peaks during the winter, and lies low during the summer months. Shutting ourselves away during the first lockdown probably didn’t actually make that much difference.

“The last peak wasn't in winter though. The NHS is almost at breaking point every winter as it is.”

True. But the NHS now has the nightingales, and all of the extra resources the Government has now put in to help. Plus there is so much more knowledge now about what drugs work. AND vaccinations have started.

Those most likely to need a hospital bed are those in at risk groups. And they should absolutely be helped to shield.

Don’t forget the overwhelming majority of people will not be affected by this virus, and will not need NHS help.

@TheLittleDogLaughed
We have had very little freedom in central belt scotland and have been under enhanced restrictions pretty much since March. Even over summer we didn't get a few months of freedom - we were under lockdown longer, kids activities never came back and we were only allowed limited contact indoors for a very short period.

During summer Nicola Sturgeon was talking about eradicating the virus. Well guess what, despite all the restrictions we are still experiencing a lot of cases. This is why I am tired of the idea of more lockdowns and have come to the conclusion that lockdowns are not worth all the other harms they cause

@Passmeabottlemrjones and what about the spread of the new variant, the one from S.Africa? Which may also effect younger people and is vastly more contagious? Do we just carry on as normal and ignoring it?