BBC news...Matt Hancock says tier 4 could last for months due to this new strain

[ssd]

He must be joking.

Months of this there will be no businesses left

If everyone followed the rules like they were supposed to, we wouldn't be here.

No, it is spreading in schools, hospitals, care homes and in individual households.

I totally agree that we need to prioritise the elderly and vulnerable but at the same time do we all remember the first lockdown when we were singing the praises of everyone out there having to work? The people that kept this country going? The lorry drivers, supermarket staff, NHS front line, police, fire brigade. I do strongly feel we should be protecting them as much as we can. For the record this doesn't include me. I am worried what will happen next. I want the schools to close for a little and the country to lockdown to regain control of this virus but I dont know how businesses will survive this. This year has wiped everyone out and its never as simple as deciding between health and economy they need to be balanced. I'm just keeping everything crossed that the vaccine continues to prove effective and they can continue to roll it out as fast as possible.

Handcock is always joking, isn't he????
MP's OK, taking a hard earned break with the pay rise they didn't want or agree to while we're all shafted

Their pay should be reduced by the same amount as we've all suffered, they'd think harder then before strolling through the lobby

Hillary4 completely agree. It's shocking their "I'm all right, Jack" attitude. Johnson always slightly smirking when he delivers devastating news, Rees-Mogg saying that UNICEF are point-scoring by delivering food to starving kids in Southwark, Hancock's phoney tears, not to even begin on the arrogance of Cummings n Goings and Pritti Shitti. I don't think even a dystopian movie would create a government as awful as this one.

@ImPrincessAurora London is in Tier 4 because it has the highest case rates and the virus is spreading out of control. Yes it varies from borough to borough, but if you live in London you know that people don't confine themselves to one borough. If the pubs are open in a town that has a low case rate, everyone will go to the pubs there, and that will become the hotspot. It's epidemiological whackamole.

The Government is not going to vaccinate Londoners first. That's pure paranoia and starts an unhelpful "but what about Me?" line of thinking. The JCVS will make clinical decisions about how to reduce loss of life and that will be that.

Boris and his incompetent minions have made a mess of pretty much every single thing they have set out to do this year, except hand public money to their mates, which they have done remarkably well. But so far the vaccine is the one success story. Yes, it will take months to roll out, not weeks or days. But there are 60 million people to vaccinate. Twice.

So yes, restrictions will be in place for a while and we just have to make the best of it and be patient a little longer. But at least the vaccine is here and being rolled out and we can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

@Someonetookmyname

When did we stop living in a democracy? Who consented to being locked down like this?

If they seriously try and lock everyone down until April there will surely be mass riots.

Let’s be honest, MN is a pretty middle class place. Many of the “stay at home” brigade on here probably have cushy work from home jobs and decent sized houses. Lockdowns are not created equal.

This

The strain on single parents trying to work and homeschool simultaneously and look after children’s mental health is also immense. Secondary education can be done remotely but not primary. If they want lockdown then it should be made a national holiday because there is a limit to what one person is capable of. I have been incredibly careful and also have two jobs one in higher education and remote and one in a school where we are incredibly careful wiping desks and handles and wearing masks and keeping strict distances. I am not allowed to take time off if my child is at home I am expected to just ignore her to do my job remotely and I am at breaking point if children do not go back to school. I think this virus will keep running despite lockdowns until the vaccine helps so we have to be able to function at some level. I was very ill in March and I know how frightening the virus is so not denying the risk but the children are suffering and parents are really struggling.

Alison20 I fully understand what you're saying. I'm working from home too with a very depressed teenager, which might feel less demanding than a toddler but her mental health is a huge concern to me at the moment. BUT if we keep doing these half-arsed measures, I don't think we will ever get rid of the virus, it will go on and on - 'prolonging the agony' as some scientists have said. IF we'd done a nationwide full lockdown over the September half term, with schools and everything shut for 3 weeks, we'd have kicked that spike and the new mutation and we'd probably be having Christmas. Instead it's just this absurd tier changing that nobody understands and it's clearly not working as the virus has mutated and is spreading rapidly.

I'd prefer the short sharp shock treatment to this endless middle road which is failing.

Pritti Shitti ....and her infuriating Jafaican 🙈

Try not to crucify me for this, but if we stay in full lock down (tier 4), it will be our fault. If no one leaves their homes the virus wil die a death, numbers of cases will go down.

Unfortunately having read some of the group members statements that they're going to ignore the rules over Xmas, I expect to still be in lockdown this time next year.

If no one leaves their homes the virus wil die a death

No one?

Including medical staff? Refuse collectors? Transport workers? Essential retail staff? Couriers? Police officers?

There's no such thing as a complete lockdown, including the ones some on MN were salivating over. And lockdowns have to end sooner or later. And then what?

@SallyB392

Try not to crucify me for this, but if we stay in full lock down (tier 4), it will be our fault. If no one leaves their homes the virus wil die a death, numbers of cases will go down.

Unfortunately having read some of the group members statements that they're going to ignore the rules over Xmas, I expect to still be in lockdown this time next year.

But that's not actually possible unless you're prepared to have no sick treated, no food delivered, no power or water supply maintenance...

@SallyB392 fine so care home workers can stop looking after care home residents, nurses and doctors can just let patients look after themselves and we can all hope that everyone has enough provisions to see them through January- actually looking at our fridge and freezer that may well be the case.
Even when we were on full lockdown in Mar- May numbers took a long time to go down because there is a fair proportion of society who cannot just shut their doors and stay at home.

@SallyB392

Try not to crucify me for this, but if we stay in full lock down (tier 4), it will be our fault. If no one leaves their homes the virus wil die a death, numbers of cases will go down.

Unfortunately having read some of the group members statements that they're going to ignore the rules over Xmas, I expect to still be in lockdown this time next year.

That is such a middle class privileged comment. How do you think food gets to the supermarket? Who drives the medical staff to hospitals? Who cares for the elderly? Who empties your bin? Those idiots that cannot work from home so are spreading the virus. Are you an MP? Rees Mogg perhaps?

4 comments in a row saying basically the same thing!

Good to see there is still some sense on MN!

We are not getting rid of this virus by locking down. When will people realise it is pretty much everywhere in the world and will be mutating as it goes. We will have to live with it in some shape or form. I blame politicians including Nicola Sturgeon for talking about eradicating the virus over the summer

And I think the essential workers whether NHS, teachers, food producers, manufacturers, warehouse staff etc need to be offered the vaccine first. My mum and dad (both 70s) are prepared to wait as although it impacts on their lives it would make much more of a difference to others by making sure kids could get an education, food will be on their plate etc

We are not getting rid of this virus by locking down

Totally agree with this. Restrictions, whatever they are, are aimed at decreasing the pressure on the NHS which is close to cracking under the strain.

We may not ever eradicate the virus. We have to find a way of living with it in a way that enables humans to support themselves and their families. This may be very different from the "old normal" and I think many would do better mental health wise if they adjusted their expectations

Well said!

The lockdown earlier this year reduced the number of cases massively. Yes, essential and key workers still went to work but there being less people on public transport meant that there was less chance of transmission.

What NOBODY ever discusses with schools is how the kids get there. It's fine saying teachers are being careful. But my dd, for instance, takes a bus and a tram to college. The main people using local transport like this are school / college kids and a lot of pensioners! If we stick with the idea that kids can carry the virus but not necessarily have symptoms, then that's a whole hot bed of infection in a confined environment. The only difference between the pathetic November lockdown and the earlier one was that schools remained open in November and cases rose, they did not go down like they did with the first lockdown. You don't have to be a genius to understand that hundreds of kids commuting to school is not going to do anything to help contain the virus.

@TheLittleDogLaughed you make a very good point.

Out secondary uses buses to ship lots of kids in, on old old buses without many windows that can't be opened and they don't open them anyway. Kids are crammed in without any SD.

All 20 of my husband's colleagues including him tested positive last week. This despite huge efforts at being Covid secure, PPE etc etc and the issue was most likely a lack of ventilation.

So goodness knows how easily it could spread on a packed bus with no ventilation.

If a full lockdown was feasible it would slow the rate of spread therefore slow the rate of mutations being generated and lessening the chance of a mutation that is resistant to the vaccine.

Chaotic45 exactly! I know that nobody wants to see schools and colleges closed and I really sympathise with the mental health aspects of keeping kids / teenagers at home, for them and the parents. But we're just going to keep going round in circles if we don't do a hard lockdown.

What REALLY scares me is a more frightening mutation. If you look at what a lot of scientists are saying, this is a possibility - there are currently 4 mutations; this fast spreading one is in the lead but two of the others look much more serious in terms of symptoms.

If we keep letting the virus get ahead of us, as we are, we're looking at prolonged lockdowns, more illness, more death. All the countries who have taken very stringent methods are doing way better than we are.

@TheLittleDogLaughed

If we keep letting the virus get ahead of us, as we are, we're looking at prolonged lockdowns, more illness, more death. All the countries who have taken very stringent methods are doing way better than we are.

Really?

So Spain, which locked millions of children in their homes for weeks on end, is doing splendidly? Not the case last time I checked. Nor France, which required permits to go outside the home.

Most major European nations are in pretty much the same boat. And let's not start with the silly comparisons to an island in the middle of the south Pacific with a smaller population than Yorkshire.

Presumably equivalent virus mutations are happening all over the world now. Bangladesh has had 7000 deaths & 5million cases. That they counted & let's face it, we assume they are missing a lot of cases. India next door has 10x as many people for the virus to transit thru and come up with diverse mutations. Pakistan, Iran... there's no special reason why Uk would have a truly special mutation.

Plus whatever is happening in rest of world to virus mutations.

imho, if Tier4 was going to happen to control the virus it was probably always going to happen. We just happen to know a lot about why Tier4 had to happen here & now.

I think this is a core part of my anti-Lockdown instincts. Relying on Lkdn always looked too unsustainable, Things like inevitable diversity of the virus would and did scupper our understanding of how to control the virus, and any understanding of whether the price we are paying to control the virus will be worth it in the end.