Quick poll: who intends to continue with Xmas plans in tier 4?

[Missmidden]

To help with my discussions with family who were due to come entirely within the rules as they were pre 4pm!

Genuinely in a total quandary as to what to say- all low risk people but it’s our decision as our house. If I thought that a big chunk of the affected population would “rebel” or that everyone else was towing the line that might help, so thanks in advance.

The beds are less occupied than this time last year

That is not true everywhere. In London, according to the mayor in a interview this morning, bed occupancy in London hospitals is not the same as at the height of the pandemic.

OK - that's not 'this time last year' and I have no idea if it was even worse again in December 19. But there really is an important and imminent hospital capacity issue for tier 4

@treening I am so so sorry for your situation. It’s a horrible, horrible balance. But my mum will die if she doesn’t continue to get the NHS treatment that she needs. She lives alone as my Dad died suddenly about a year ago. I cry daily about this still, I want to see her so badly. The thought that I may not see her again is unbearable. But it’s about the physical and mental health of the nation, so I will stay home. So her hospital will have a bed available for her, so people can access A and E without a 20hr wait, so people can have their babies safely.

We have just cancelled. Horrible.
We are in Scotland, we were driving to England to see the in laws.

I am so so sorry for your situation. It’s a horrible, horrible balance. But my mum will die if she doesn’t continue to get the NHS treatment that she needs.

So will mine, and she already isn't getting it because MH services have been shut down. So I have got to help her myself.

I'm in Tier 4.
My partner & lives & works in Tier 2 as do his elderly parents - about 40mins away from me.
My family live & work in Tier 2. They live about 90mins away.
My partner will be popping up later to swap presents on the doorstep. He'll be bubbling solely with his parents but will help me if it's an emergency.
The Xmas plans for my partner, his family & my family stay the same.
I'm on my own.

@treening as my mum is vulnerable, during the last lockdown I was permitted to see her to provide care following her operation. So I’m not sure of the ruling, but if you are providing care needs then that’s a different situation?

I had to isolate before I entered her house, and I followed the advice given by the hospital as here carer.

So I’m not sure of the ruling, but if you are providing care needs then that’s a different situation?

I'm not allowed to as she already lives with my sister. But my sister has her own, pretty severe mental health problems and can't cope on her own.

That's not to mention my other brother and sister, who both live alone, and also have very severe MH issues. My brother has tried to kill himself at Christmas, several times.

We went through a major, collective trauma when we were young around Christmas and I dont know how will get through the day when we can't spend it together.

Sunflowergirl1 given how “strict” Tier 4 is??! The head of the Met Police has stated: its NOT enforceable. Confirmed police will 100% NOT be knocking on people’s doors on Christmas Day. That the police do NOT have power of entry anyway!
So yes.... really “strict” !

We've cancelled our plans. The country still has high numbers because we basically have an unregulated open border, & because the government isn't prepared to enforce the rules, so anyone who wants to flout them can currently do so without consequences. Except this is the consequence, more deaths. All this tiers stuff is just nonsense really unless people actually obey the rules.

@treening with my mum - I am ‘on call’ to her as her carer. I am not seeing her over Christmas, because I can see with my daily phone calls that she is - not great - but physically able to care for herself. If something happened, e.g. a fall - I would go to her as an emergency, and this would be allowed?

@treening

So I’m not sure of the ruling, but if you are providing care needs then that’s a different situation?

I'm not allowed to as she already lives with my sister. But my sister has her own, pretty severe mental health problems and can't cope on her own.

That's not to mention my other brother and sister, who both live alone, and also have very severe MH issues. My brother has tried to kill himself at Christmas, several times.

We went through a major, collective trauma when we were young around Christmas and I dont know how will get through the day when we can't spend it together.

This is where common sense and decency of others needs to come in. Those of us that can avoid getting together should do so for people like you to be able to support your family. I am one who has used the word selfish to describe those that will carry on with their plans regardless but in your situation I would be breaking the rules.

My parents were supposed to be coming to us, and now we can't do that they want DH and I to meet them in a carpark halfway. Much shouting, crying and general abuse down the phone last night when I expressed reservations about this idea, and I can well believe the MIL upthread who threw the Christmas tree. In my case reluctance to do a 5hr round trip in Christmas day to sit in a cold, wet car park and risk catching a nasty illness apparently makes me the world's rottenest daughter (that we've seen even less of DH's family this year is neither here nor there). This thread is helping me stick to my guns.

I am one who has used the word selfish to describe those that will carry on with their plans regardless but in your situation I would be breaking the rules.

Thank you, I appreciate that

@treening I do feel for you, and your thoughts here are certainly not selfish, as it sounds like you are providing care needs. But please, please be carefully about mixing - if one of your family members are exposed to Covid - and you mix together - your situation would be made horribly worse. I hope your area is ok, but my mums hospital is at breaking point. The NHS care that I generally take for granted just may not be there at all.

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

Exactly.

Treening - I agree.

Most of the posts on here and other threads trying to justify breaking the rules ARE selfish. People don't seem to care that EVERYONE is sick and fed up of not seeing friends and family since March, of not having had a holiday, of either working from home and being lonely, or working in health care, care, education or retail and being put at risk everyday, or having lost their jobs.

Everyone is suffering and we all need to continue to be selfless.

BUT your situation and, others who have needs as severe and significant as your family's, is clearly different and you should support your family as you need to. You need to take care of yourself too as I can only imagine the burden of that all on you. .

Just watching my neighbours daughter arrive home from London. They went to pick her up in the middle of the night. My other neighbours parents have just arrived from Berkshire. Also travelled up overnight. Don’t really blame them.

We won't be going to my parents for Christmas anymore, but my son will have a couple of days there next week. They look after him 2 days a week anyway, this way we can get a break and he can see his grandparents. He is seeing them this week and the week after when we work so I don't see the difference. We've been isolating for 10 days and it will be 2 weeks by the time he sees them so are confident we are all well.

I think people need to understand that in some cases where there is a mental health concern, not most by any means, your NHS bed might need to be used by someone in m/h crisis if this change is their last straw. So people saying my family need their physical care needs met by the NHS so we can't let it collapse- the NHS is for mental health too which is just as important!

I'm not saying mental health be used as an excuse but there is some frankly sickening undermining of severe mental health concerns on this thread given that depressive disorders one of the leading causes of disability. And depending on your age group, the leading cause of death.

I'm not saying mental health be used as an excuse but there is some frankly sickening undermining of severe mental health concerns on this thread given that depressive disorders one of the leading causes of disability. And depending on your age group, the leading cause of death.

There is still an overwhelming view that physical health trumps mental health.

@hungarianhybrid

Just go for it! I’m in tier 4 and still going ahead - it’s not like the police are going to be knocking on peoples doors to see if you have guests 😂

But it isn't about getting caught, it's about NOT SPREADING THE FUCKING VIRUS

@treening

I'm not saying mental health be used as an excuse but there is some frankly sickening undermining of severe mental health concerns on this thread given that depressive disorders one of the leading causes of disability. And depending on your age group, the leading cause of death.

There is still an overwhelming view that physical health trumps mental health.

Which is frankly ridiculous. Before this we were beginning to evolve beyond that

I'm in a Tier 4 area and for the first time in months I'm hearing of lots of people testing positive. It's spreading fast. We're in for an utter shitshow if people keep thinking the rules don't apply to them.

Anyone who lives alone, T4 or anywhere else, should not be alone for Christmas. If you’re not alone or in danger then do your bit and stay where you are.