This is ridiculous!!

[Thedarksideofthemoon30]

I’m so fed up now. This is probably the least Xmasy I have felt since the one after my mum died (she died on the 29th December 2009).

I feel like it’s all being dangled in front of us then snatched away again. Iv just seen they have cut it down to one day only that you are allowed to mix. Like wtf?! It’s 6 days before Christmas!

So, does your research say open up the gyms, pubs, let's party and everything will be ok?

My research? I don't have any research, I get my info from the same places everyone else does. I told you about the evidence from my local area, referenced the rise in domestic abuse rates, the delays in cancer care etc - those have all been discussed in mainstream press. Like I say, I don't want to be right, but it is literally already happening.

But to answer your question, no I don't think anyone is saying that everything will be okay. We are clearly pretty fucked. But maybe we could stop closing down businesses and putting people into poverty - that might be a good place to start.

You're thinking about it WAAAY too simplistically.

And this is the problem. People think they're thinking critically about it all. And they're mistaken.

There. Is. No. Mutation.

Personally I think killing god knows how many people in January so people can get their jollies on is ridiculous.

I feel for sine groups who will be v. Impacted by this I.e. key workers who won't spend Christmas day with their families because they are working and then won't get a chance at "Christmas" on another day but for the majority they will get to spend it with loved ones even if it's not how they imagined. It's one Christmas, vaccine is being administered as we speak so it seems stupid to trash future Christmasse's for this one.

Its crap, but its needed. Six days is a lot of notice, no other religious festival had such a lengthy notice of rules changing.

My partners parents arrived in the UK over a week ago, they’re isolating in an airbnb so they could see him over xmas. He hasn’t seen them since January, its been a very rocky year in their relationship and they had been making progress since October. As we’ll be following the rules they’ve decided its my fault (because I clearly brought in tier 4) and called my partner a variety of nasty things. So yeah, a fairly shit night for us.

@queenofknives

"My research? I don't have any research, I get my info from the same places everyone else does."

I rest my case.

@Elephant4

There. Is. No. Mutation.

of course. Not known since about october, well documented. But I guess unless the daily fail and the likes not document it it is non existent. It must be real nice ans simple in your alternative reality.

@Elephant4

There. Is. No. Mutation.

What makes you say that?

@emilybev1986

Johnson, Gove, Hancock all need to go.

All of them are just making things up to cover the shitshow they have made of everything.

Why are we closing everything except supermarkets, and yet supermarkets mysteriously don't cause virus transmission although Argos does?

Idiots, idiots, idiots.

I will wear a mask, sanitise, and socially distance if it helps, but these clowns are just running to their own agenda now.

A pox on all of them.

Seriously ? Perhaps because supermarkets sell essential stuff such as food ? Unlike Argos.

Just 3 days ago he insisted xmas could go ahead 3 bloody days , forget what he said in november
He was asked a week ago to reduce it by others
Now tier 4 - did we have a tier 4 ? What next tier 5/6

@shinynewapple2020 supermarkets also sell unessential things and people are browsing around them
At my local matalan , next etc they limit numbers , make you use the sanitisers
Supermarkets have abandoned all the measures round here they had in place its a free for all
Full of large groups shopping , etc
I feel unsafe in supermarket , felt safer in a restaurant if I am honest.
Also some really don't realise not everyone has money to go out ans get a load of days food they hadn't planned for . Maybe they had contributed already to a family meal 100 miles away
Some don't get paid again until end of month and have enough food until the 22nd then was away for 5 days - also someone said people eat everyday , you know there are some that actually don't
I have nothing in for xmas , probably have couple tins in cupboard , dh gets paid xmas eve luckily so can buy whats left in the supermarket ans go ans mix with the hundreds rather than just my 2 parents

@queenofknives

Would you like it if it was YOUR relative left to die as there was just nowhere to treat them?

Of course not. But that's true whether we're talking about covid, or cancer, or alzheimers or anything else. The difference is that for some reason, we've decided that ONLY covid matters. Only covid, no other diseases, not the entire economy, not education, not childcare, not domestic violence, not child abuse, not suicide, not isolation... only covid matters, even if we end up with more thousands of lives lost from other causes. Only covid matters, even if we end up a society of broken people with no hope for the future. Well, yeah... fuck that.

It isn't that it has been decided that only Covid matters. It is that by the nature of the virus with its high level of contagiousness combined with the ill health and death it can cause, it has the ability to overwhelm other things. If we were to abandon restrictions, this ability would only become even more pronounced and the problems you mention would increase.

There is light at the end of the tunnel in the form of vaccines, we just unfortunately have to get through this very tough bit now.

@BlueBlancmange will the vaccine work on new strain though ? And we don't known how long they offer protection for sure yet
I bloody hope they work of course but I am not pinning my hopes on this yet when there is so many unknowns
Also its going to take a while for vaccines to be rolled out to most

This is so fucking ridiculous. I am in a really low area of herts.

On monday I said no of course that's not me when they put London and parts of herts and essex in t3 from weds... and it wasnt us because our rares were really low. then on weds they bunged the rest of herts in for good measure. Despite us having rates lower than many t2 places. And now, as a result, knee jerk reaction and wholesale upgrading means we are now sitting with rates well below most t3 places as well as some t2 places but we are in t4 and christmas is well and truly cancelled. We were in t3 for 24 hours total and that wasnt justifiable with our rates. And to add insult to injury I have just realised that bordering areas of essex, which have far higher rates than us, and far closer to the eye of the storm, somehow escaped the cut on weds and have therefore escaped this too and are somehow in t2. The whole thing is nonsensical. If they have local data they should be using it and not just plugging whole counties (eg herts, much of which has low rates) into lockdown while sparing parts of other counties (eg essex where rates are through the roof in some areas) . It is either county lines or it isnt. I actually dont think it should be whole counties but that is how I have been rationalizing it to myself

Come on then Elephant4, you're obviously dying to expand....

In July Chris Whitty told us with absolute clarity what would happen if we insisted on keeping schools and universities open. He said we can not have everything open as the virus would spread the more contact there is. He said if we have schools open other areas will have to close - to reduce contact. If we don't do that the virus will spread.
As usual Johnson did what he liked and opened almost everything. The highest infections are amongst teenagers and young adults. He either has to close secondary schools and send university students home or close everything else. He did neither. Then throw in a faster spreading mutation and you end up in this mess.
We were told the answer last night but as usual we don't like it. We want rid of the virus but don't want to do what we have to do to control it.

The south east has to be isolated and locked down. People need to stay at home, follow the rules socially distance and wash their hands. Schools must close. They must, and universities. Do not put elderly/vulnerable people/family members at any risk- they are now more likely to get it with contact because it spreads more easily. If the south-east does not do this it will spread quickly there and to the rest of the country very quickly.

The rest of us must do the right thing. Stop moaning and just do it. Don't break the rules.

We need to keep doing this until the vaccine delivery is much more widespread. Let's hope the mutation does still respond to the vaccine.

Just get a grip and do it. Don't complain, don't cheat, stop feeling sorry for yourself. The most important thing is slowing down the virus. I am appalled by the news that trains and roads out of London were jam-packed last night. People are so selfish and stupid.

[quote timeforanewstart]@shinynewapple2020 supermarkets also sell unessential things and people are browsing around them
At my local matalan , next etc they limit numbers , make you use the sanitisers
Supermarkets have abandoned all the measures round here they had in place its a free for all
Full of large groups shopping , etc
I feel unsafe in supermarket , felt safer in a restaurant if I am honest.
Also some really don't realise not everyone has money to go out ans get a load of days food they hadn't planned for . Maybe they had contributed already to a family meal 100 miles away
Some don't get paid again until end of month and have enough food until the 22nd then was away for 5 days - also someone said people eat everyday , you know there are some that actually don't
I have nothing in for xmas , probably have couple tins in cupboard , dh gets paid xmas eve luckily so can buy whats left in the supermarket ans go ans mix with the hundreds rather than just my 2 parents
[/quote]

@timeforanewstart

Yes I agree with what you say. I'm not sure why you are directing this at me though . My comment was to a poster who couldn't understand why supermarkets would remain open but Argos would close . I was simply saying supermarkets need to remain open for people to buy food . And that will include people who are now having to shop for Christmas food when they had expected to eat with a family member . And yes for many that supermarket won't feel safe .

And as for all the 'our area has hardly any cases and it isn't fair' - that's so stupid it's beyond belief. People travel, particularly locally. We can't operate a system where there are different tiers for every town/village/street depending on numbers of cases in them. It would be chaotic.

We live in a post-code that has so few cases they won't publish the number because it would make the individuals identifiable- are in the lowest 5% in the whole country apparently. One of our neighbours is a nurse who visits the elderly in their homes and is called to residential homes at night if someone is ill. She goes in and out of places where people are ill with it every day and comes back here. Other neighbours are teachers, a GP, an NHS consultant, an electrician, a builder. Most of us have children. Neighbours are all at work in places where there are many other people. Children goto local schools - our local secondary school has 1800 students but it's not in our postcode. You can't lock people into a postcode- it isn't possible. But you can ask them to take every precaution and minimise risk. That is all we are being asked to do. And if we want to keep schools open - where it will now spread even faster- we have to pay the price in other ways.