This is ridiculous!!

[Thedarksideofthemoon30]

I’m so fed up now. This is probably the least Xmasy I have felt since the one after my mum died (she died on the 29th December 2009).

I feel like it’s all being dangled in front of us then snatched away again. Iv just seen they have cut it down to one day only that you are allowed to mix. Like wtf?! It’s 6 days before Christmas!

It was never going to be a good idea to mix full stop, and we shouldn’t be mixing for one day either. We won’t in our house.
I know of three people who have died in the last two weeks, and one still in hospital deteriorating.
It’s not worth it , stay home.

@shamus2020

Can anyone answer this for me I've searched everywhere. I'm a single parent to 5 (18,18,16,6,4) I've been bubbled with my parents since forever as I don't drive and my parents have been helping me out a lot. They live on the next street and was coming to me for Xmas day. Can they still come or is the bubble thing not applying to people in tier 4, thanks

Presumably it's a support bubble, and your 18 year olds were under 18 in June when support bubbles started? Support bubbles still apply in tier 4 it's Christmas bubbles which don't.

I have no Christmas food in and no money to get any so some people may well go without. Hopefully being in tier 4 won't stop my mum dividing up the food we all paid towards and dropping it to individual houses. If not she'll be eating sprouts for a month

There is no point in complaining about the new up to date Covid rules.The virus is going a bit crazy now,and more people are dying,or are ill. Despite nobody seeming to trust Boris, he is just delivering what he has been told , from all the experts.

If there was no guidance from the medical people, I dare say that millions of people would just decide to do what they wan't, and ignore this nasty virus, then the whole country would be in dire straights.

It's just one day, vaccines are coming along why blow it all and take such risks. Yes Boris is a prat but mainly for raising people's expectations and then failing to call this weeks ago when he knew it was not a good idea.

@Pumpertrumper

As the wife of an intensive care doctor I fully support the decision that’s been made and regardless of poor timing am glad they’ve made it.

As a mother, sister, daughter and grand daughter I’m gutted and fuming! Luckily we are still able to mix on Christmas Day but it’s removed our ability to split up our visiting to protect a vulnerable household (due to visit first) from a higher risk household (due to visit second). Now we are all having to gather together on the same day in the same place putting the first household at much greater risk. (Can’t still visit separately due to travel times).

It’s removed our ability to exercise common sense. Either we see them together or we don’t see them!

It doesn't remove your ability to exercise common sense at all.

You could choose to see only one of the two households.

@queenofknives

Simply deluded.

Ds lives in south London on his own and dd offered to go and get him today so he wouldn’t be alone but ds has said that although he will really miss us all he feels it wouldn’t be safe or right for him to come as he is a teacher in Surrey and one of the year 11s was confirmed as positive with the new variation this morning. The child was in school on Thursday and ds taught him so is a fairly close contact.

The school finished early yesterday so all the year were out celebrating and possibly spreading.

To be fair, the mutation was unforeseeable and I'm sure scientists have been working round the clock to establish the facts over the last few days.

It's deeply disappointing but they do have to ensure hospitals can cope in the light of this week's events.

As a family member, I'm gutted.

We can be more than one thing.

Johnson, Gove, Hancock all need to go.

All of them are just making things up to cover the shitshow they have made of everything.

Why are we closing everything except supermarkets, and yet supermarkets mysteriously don't cause virus transmission although Argos does?

Idiots, idiots, idiots.

I will wear a mask, sanitise, and socially distance if it helps, but these clowns are just running to their own agenda now.

A pox on all of them.

[quote airbags]@queenofknives

Simply deluded.[/quote]
You don't think that lockdown is causing a total disaster in health, the economy and in our democratic rights and institutions? Well I really hope you're right, but we're already seeing it happen. I think if you're relatively well off, with a professional job, nice home and garden and so on, the effects might not be so visible yet, but the cracks are already there. I live in a trendy and popular area and shops are starting to be boarded up. People are already dying for want of treatment for non-covid related illnesses. Domestic violence rates are up massively. That means child abuse will probably be on the up as well. Schools have been closed and exams cancelled, thousands of young people have missed out on university, thousands of children had no school at all. Thousands of people have lost their jobs. Pubs, cafes, restaurants have closed in their hundreds. Even some big chains are shutting down. It's not deluded - that's what's happening.

But don't take my word for it, you should research it for yourself. And let's hope that I am indeed suffering from some kind of paranoid delusion. I don't really want to be right about this.

To be fair, the mutation was unforeseeable

That is simply not true. It is known that viruses mutate. It is known that this specific virus mutates. There are simple maths involved to calculate the probability of mutation. Then there is -again- simple math involved in calculating the most probable mutation.

So this was foreseeable, there could have been contingency plans and it could have been communicated as so ppl won't get carried away and get their hopes up too high.

And on another note: even a month ago it was utterly insane to say that measures will be relaxed for 5 days. Viruses don't stop at school gates, they don't have a calendar and actually don't give a fuck.
So every single person thinking that is was going to be alright to be mixing is delusional or simply thick. Starting right at the top with the clown who is running this shitshow.

thesun

No it's extremely bad luck that this particular mutation happened at this particular time and warning everyone that this specific event was on the cards would have been scare mongering. You're being ridiculous.

The nonsense thread was probably removed for the same reasons anti vax threads are... MN takes a dim view of disinformation.

When it suits them. I reported a post with blatant misinformation and was told it was ok as other posters had disputed it

@queenofknives Re your suggestion that lockdown should be abandoned....Don't you have any friends or relatives who work in A & E or Covid wards? Or who have long COVID? I do and it's an eye opener listening to them, I can tell you. I know what you're saying about the devastating effect the virus, and the lockdowns, are having on our country, but if there is no attempt to contain the virus, what would you have happen to all the COVID patients needing urgent medical help once the hospitals are full? Would you like it if it was YOUR relative left to die as there was just nowhere to treat them? Once everyone in healthcare is just trying to deal with the acute COVID patients there will be NO preventative health care going on at all. There will be no-one going out to pubs anyway as no-one would want to risk ending up in a situation where they desperately need acute COVID care only to find it isn't available.

Where are the funds going to come from for more long COVID clinics, for the extra lung specialists or physiotherapists needed? I wouldn't be surprised if there is already prioritising going on. My elderly relative with COPD has yearly lung function appointments and there is talk of him being discharged. I am not convinced the reason he is being discharged isn't becuase they are trying to create capacity for new cases resulting from post COVID complications. I don't know for sure but it seems a coincidence.

Where is the financial support going to come from for all those extra people newly unable to work, possibly for the rest of their working life, because of long COVID?

I'm pretty sure that ministers, economists and healthcare specialists are considering all these things and weighing things up and deciding that on balance, lockdowns are the side we'll have to come down on.

They would have been better extending the November lockdown in my opinion. Relaxing it at the beginning of December just in time for everyone to go mix Christmas shopping and on Christmas nights out or whatever was ludicrous from a health point of view. I can totally understand it from an economy point of view. The most profitable time of year for a lot of businesses. And the time of year hasn't helped, weather-wise. Pavement cafes and bars are not enjoyable once it gets below a certain temperature even with heaters.

@emilybev1986

Johnson, Gove, Hancock all need to go.

All of them are just making things up to cover the shitshow they have made of everything.

Why are we closing everything except supermarkets, and yet supermarkets mysteriously don't cause virus transmission although Argos does?

Idiots, idiots, idiots.

I will wear a mask, sanitise, and socially distance if it helps, but these clowns are just running to their own agenda now.

A pox on all of them.

Erm... you're really asking why supermarkets will still be allowed to open?

And calling others 'idiots, idiots, idiots'?

Will Easter really be better? Will we be able to make up for Christmas and have freedom to celebrate with family then. My child was 4 when this pandemic started, if it goes past Easter he'll be 6. That's a huge chunk of a child's life.

I think it is absurd that I cannot mix with my family "to keep people safe" but come the 11 January I have to mix with people from 30 different households in a room with not enough room to SD, limited ventilation and no mask. Especially as I've already had covid from work and have a short window where im unlikely to infect anyone

@queenofknives of course pubs, restaurants and some shops have gone out of business. It's extremely regrettable but almost impossible to avoid in the wake of an unprecedented global emergency like this, given the way the virus is spread.

That doesn't mean the answer is for everyone to ignore the restrictions.

You can't possibly be reasoning that?

Weren’t scientists insisting on this from the start?

Things change, it’s shit but what can you do? I really feel for those affected by this especially those that are on their own.

I’m not sure my mental health or my marriage
Will survive if they close
Schools again

Would you like it if it was YOUR relative left to die as there was just nowhere to treat them?

Of course not. But that's true whether we're talking about covid, or cancer, or alzheimers or anything else. The difference is that for some reason, we've decided that ONLY covid matters. Only covid, no other diseases, not the entire economy, not education, not childcare, not domestic violence, not child abuse, not suicide, not isolation... only covid matters, even if we end up with more thousands of lives lost from other causes. Only covid matters, even if we end up a society of broken people with no hope for the future. Well, yeah... fuck that.

@cookiecuttercreamandbutter

thesun

No it's extremely bad luck that this particular mutation happened at this particular time and warning everyone that this specific event was on the cards would have been scare mongering. You're being ridiculous.

Again, you are very wrong. In any project we plan ahead. We have plan A-Z. Planning for a mutation in a pandemic is the most basic thing. Planning should have happened for:

1. virus getting more lethal
2. virus getting more infectious
3. combinations of the 2 above. There are variations of 4 combinations.

So a minimum 6 contingency plans should have been in place from the start. Imagine how big gov structure is, surely they could have put together a team to do this.

Excusing them is unacceptable. Their sole job is to manage the country. Not to deliver warm and fuzzy feelings.

This is basic, complex, but not unreasonable to plan for.

In a high profile construction (e.g nuclear plant that has to be up by x date otherwise half the country goes without electricity) you plan for good weather, bad weather and even have contingency plan for blizzards. You plan for cement settling into the truck if road is blocked, etc. I know, my diploma is in this area.

@queenofknives
My deluded comment relates to your statements.
"People need a range of healthcare to be available, operations, cancer treatment" - and how do you think that will happen if people just do as they please and hospitals are full of Covid patients?
"Children need to be in school, getting an education" - mine have been in school, so should we just send them all in irrespective if they have Covid or not - that will work well! .
"People need to be able to go to exercise classes, to the pub, out for a meal, to a party" - No, the y don't NEED to, they want to.
"We don't just need to be alive - we need quality of life, health care, meaningful work, love and family connections, and hope for the future".-Which the longer this pandemic goes on the longer it is until we can have these things.

You can't have a family connection with a dead relative. You can't have effective healthcare if the wards are full of Covid.

And yes, 5 of my immediate family have had Covid, I see the effects of Covid in my job as a clinician, I know the effects of Covid on cancer patients and I have kids at school, my child's exams were cancelled, I live in a multicultural city in a poor area and right now I'm poorer than a church mouse - so I have some personal experience. And please don't talk to me about research, as a clinician I evaluate research whilst others get their views and influence from way more dubious sources.
So, does your research say open up the gyms, pubs, let's party and everything will be ok? - I doubt it.