I'm fucking done

[Twizbe]

I'm done. We've been isolating ready to see my parents and now we can't.

This is the third time now we've had to cancel plans last min and I'm sick of it! Totally sick of it!

Nobody is dismissing mental health. Profs Witty and Valance have mentioned it on more than one occasion in their briefings just not today. People are more than aware that all this is so damaging for so many people.
It's a huge worry and one i worry about too as I know so many people who are suffering , mostly in silence. So many problems coming down the line I fear.
:(

Well if people have isolated before seeing family then the risk isn’t huge. If I go to church and sit with my mask on (which does relatively little to reduce the spread of the virus actually) there could be someone in the room who has tested positive for Covid but has still gone to church. If it’s indoors, I still have a fairly high risk of catching it even if I sit 2 m apart from that person.

Why is it unreasonable to ask people to refrain from collective worship but it’s fine to require people to abstain from seeing loved ones? I don’t get the logic. I can’t control who comes to my church but I can control who comes to my home and we can take precautions to minimise the risk.

Yes it is a virus. Which means we can’t actually stop it spreading. We can slow it down a bit, by using social distancing and lockdowns. But those things also have a price: mental health issues, breakdown of society, damage to the economy, loss of jobs and businesses, increased poverty and homelessness (which also shorten lives and so in the end cause increased deaths). And I’m not saying we shouldn’t do some social distancing - but personally I think the public should be given a choice and the government should encourage them to do it by educating them on the health reasons for doing so , not by forcing them do it by criminalising their behaviour.

@willsantausesantatize

Nobody is dismissing mental health. Profs Witty and Valance have mentioned it on more than one occasion in their briefings just not today. People are more than aware that all this is so damaging for so many people. It's a huge worry and one i worry about too as I know so many people who are suffering , mostly in silence. So many problems coming down the line I fear. :(

Them mentioning it and saying it’s tough but suck it up is not taking it seriously. And I was talking more about this thread actually in terms of dismissing very real mental health concerns. There are people living in utter misery and who are facing financial ruin because of how the government has acted. This lockdown, like all the other lockdowns and restrictions before it, will do relatively little to halt the virus and, as soon as restrictions are lifted, it will come right back and we will be at square one again.

With all this going on it beggars belief that school goes on as normal.

This!

People kicked up such a fuss about schools closing (not saying they were wrong to) and said that education should come above everything else which means to reopen schools in January they need to restrict mixing over Christmas.
I think if schools weren’t on the table then we would be able to mix freely over the Xmas period.

@RealityNotEssentialism

And the dismissal of mental health impacts is horrible. The people I know who are the most militant about ‘sticking to the rules’ and judging others for not doing so do not live alone. Unless they have spent weeks in a flat with little to no contact with another human, they can seriously fuck off with their moralising of people who choose to see loved ones for the sake of their own mental health. They don’t have a clue what it’s like for many out there.

It’s not just the Lonely. what about the mental health of the key workers? And their loved ones who worry all the time about them. It’s swings and roundabouts however they deal with it someone will suffer. They should never ever have got peoples hopes up especially when Xmas can be such a hard time anyway

@Chocolatte21

Yes it is a virus. Which means we can’t actually stop it spreading. We can slow it down a bit, by using social distancing and lockdowns. But those things also have a price: mental health issues, breakdown of society, damage to the economy, loss of jobs and businesses, increased poverty and homelessness (which also shorten lives and so in the end cause increased deaths). And I’m not saying we shouldn’t do some social distancing - but personally I think the public should be given a choice and the government should encourage them to do it by educating them on the health reasons for doing so , not by forcing them do it by criminalising their behaviour.

Totally agree. The scaremongering is also off the scale. We have flu pandemics every single winter that kill thousands but we didn’t shut everything down or accuse people of killing their relatives. For a virus that more than 99% will recover from, we are taking very extreme action. Boris thinks things will be back to normal by spring. What if we find out that the second strain is vaccine-resistant? We need to learn to live with the existence of the virus without decimating the whole of society. It never has been the case that you can be completely safe from catching viruses and we can only ensure relative safety now at a price that’s far too high.

I'm also now reading on a Facebook thread of patients having ops cancelled. Lady with a stoma bag which is leaking and is covered in her own waste daily...op cancelled. Another lady with cancer op on Monday...cancelled.

When the hell are people going to wake up!! Do you know what won't be televised when all the is over? The death figures from cancer not diagnosed on time along the other terminal illness not being managed and you can bet they'll be higher than Covid death toll ever has

Ditto OP. Weve been self isolating for 8 days to allow us to safely see my parents with our 3yo for Xmas day. Now we're in tier 4 and they're in tier 2 despite being 25 minutes drive from us. So no mixing and christmas day as we had planned is cancelled. Absolutely gutted and dreading having to explain this to my daughter.

Well providing not tier 4 you can go xmas day , but at 12.01 you are at more risk apparently
I have been a rule follower and I have had it now my mh is a bigger risk to me than anything right now
Meanwhile borders i belive are still open and you are advised not yo go abroad , not sure what people will do that have gone already

@Allispretty a bloke in his twenties died from coronavirus in days, no underlying conditions at all. It’s not to be taken lightly so I’m sorry but comparing it to seasonal flu is bullshit. I’ve never said the government have done a good job. They’ve handled it really badly and our firebreak in wales was a joke. But even if we had mass testing, it’s not going to be perfect. False positives opens more problems, so along with testing, the best thing we can do is minimise the chances of spreading. But when you see supermarket workers having a chat less than 2m apart, with their masks worn under chin, it’s no surprise the numbers go up. It’s because people can’t be bloody sensible.

[quote Mummywantsaweewee]@Allispretty a bloke in his twenties died from coronavirus in days, no underlying conditions at all. It’s not to be taken lightly so I’m sorry but comparing it to seasonal flu is bullshit. I’ve never said the government have done a good job. They’ve handled it really badly and our firebreak in wales was a joke. But even if we had mass testing, it’s not going to be perfect. False positives opens more problems, so along with testing, the best thing we can do is minimise the chances of spreading. But when you see supermarket workers having a chat less than 2m apart, with their masks worn under chin, it’s no surprise the numbers go up. It’s because people can’t be bloody sensible.[/quote]
I’m sorry but that is exceptionally rare and really doesn’t represent the norm. The vast majority of the deaths have been among the very elderly. It’s incredibly rare for a younger person to have complications from Covid, let alone die and to use one rare example and suggest that this is what will happen is out of order. There are rare 25 year olds who have heart attacks and strokes too but these conditions aren’t ones that typically afflict that age range either.

I can't believe at least one poster has outright advocated not admitting over-80s to hospital and just letting them die with palliative care, and many posters have agreed with them.

Shall we do the same for the disabled?

Fucking sick is what it is. You should all be ashamed.

astressie so sorry for you too but we’ll have a small zoom fest here
Btw I seem to have a lot of panettone, champagne and other things. I’ll leave them on this table for everyone - help self - socially distanced obvs.
Support all.

And also, some unwashed bacteria-filled rag worn on your face doesn’t provide you with the protection that many seem to think it does. I always wear mine because I don’t want to alarm anyone else but I don’t kid myself that it magically makes me safe.

@Chocolatte21

Yes it is a virus. Which means we can’t actually stop it spreading. We can slow it down a bit, by using social distancing and lockdowns. But those things also have a price: mental health issues, breakdown of society, damage to the economy, loss of jobs and businesses, increased poverty and homelessness (which also shorten lives and so in the end cause increased deaths). And I’m not saying we shouldn’t do some social distancing - but personally I think the public should be given a choice and the government should encourage them to do it by educating them on the health reasons for doing so , not by forcing them do it by criminalising their behaviour.

This.

I can't believe at least one poster has outright advocated not admitting over-80s to hospital and just letting them die with palliative care

Why is that so extraordinary though?

We don’t give transplants to people over a certain age.

Cancer treatments are given/not given based on cost/benefit analysis of the number of years they’ll extend life by.

We have finite health resources. Why can’t we face up to this re Covid?

@toocold24 meanwhile though kids outdoor sport can continue kids mixing from various schools
Yes outside so slightly less risk bit actually more close contact than sitting across room from a relative
Surely it would make sense to postpone this whilst schools are also closed

Someone back thread asked which hospital had the 14 deaths - it was Southend

@RealityNotEssentialism so because it only affects some young and healthy people we should not worry about it?? There’s no way of knowing why it affects some people worse than others. And the lad I referred to is someone I knew, and if it killed him, well it could kill me too. So yeah, it is affecting people besides the over 80’s. There is little point trying to draw comparisons to strokes and heart attacks because they are not contagious. I agree 100% we need to learn to live with it, but when you go to your local supermarket and see staff standing close together, with their masks on their chins, it’s little wonder we have increasing rates.

@TheKeatingFive

I can't believe at least one poster has outright advocated not admitting over-80s to hospital and just letting them die with palliative care

Why is that so extraordinary though?

We don’t give transplants to people over a certain age.

Cancer treatments are given/not given based on cost/benefit analysis of the number of years they’ll extend life by.

We have finite health resources. Why can’t we face up to this re Covid?

For many transplants (e.g. heart) there are no limits on age, so your first premise is completely incorrect. You may be less likely to receive a transplant over a certain age, but that's because the operation may kill you rather than because you're not worth it.

Cancer treatments are also palliative if it is terminal. Not if you are old. It is not an age thing. So your second premise is also incorrect.

I presume however you would also agree with refusing hospital treatment to the disabled, since you're prepared to throw the elderly on the scrap heap. We have finite resources, after all.

@changingnamesandkeepingsane you obviously have never suffered mh issues , do you not think we would pull ourselves together if we could
Im done with this now , A couple of days with my family all low risk was a boost I needed , but now thats been given and taken .
We are likely to still have a lockdown or be put in higher tiers regardless , those who were going to break the rules will continue

Anyone whom thinks this is comparable to the normal flu is simply delusional. I was going to say something ruder but I will remain dignified and suggest you read this thread, this is NOT JUST THE SEASONAL FLU.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4110810-Worried-about-DH-temp-still-high-after-12-days