Christmas IS going to be cancelled - last minute.

[Elephant4]

Isn't it?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/boris-johnson-calls-crisis-meeting-to-discuss-response-to-new-covid-strain

They're panicking now.

The problem with lockdowns at this stage is diminishing returns.

Each subsequent one is less effective. And more costly then the last in terms of societal impact.

Compliance needs to be seen as an finite resource. If we don’t use it sparingly, we run out completely.

As much as I don't like Bojo and his cronies, the government can't win on this one. If he imposes lockdown , people will say "what about the businesses, we are finished, we have already bought our turkey to feed three families etc " , if he doesn't impose lockdown and strict rules during Christmas people will say " he's incompetent , NHS is under pressure etc". No one can predict what can happen with a virus and the government are trying their best to please the people(and their own cronies i dare say) and also stop these very people from getting killed by the virus. People have become so very entitled about merry making at Christmas, its no longer a celebration of the birth of Christ. It's just another opportunity for us to indulge ourselves. We are very lucky we don't have to hide underground to stop bombs falling on our heads or that as a nation we don't have to worry about the next flood or famine. Surely we should be able to curtail our eating, drinking , merry making and indulging ourselves for the sake of not only our own health but also for everyone else's health during this pandemic. While we are eating, drinking and indulging ourselves and merry making please remember there will be doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers at work trying to save lives, whilst putting their own lives at risk.

I must admit I’m scared about the virus mutation. They seem to be treating it very seriously. If the current vaccines are buggered then I don’t know what we’ll do

This was bound to happen. It's a coronavirus. It mutates. I think if it spirals, we will all just have to accept that it's a threat in life now and get on with it. It will kill people, it will be shit, but we simply cannot be in and out of lockdowns forever. At some point we need to accept the risks that come from nature. As humans who love to conquer and rule everything, we arent good at accepting that we cant control everything.

Completely torn here, we haven't ever spent actual Christmas day with ILs in over 20 years (no horrendous backstory to be dripfed, one of them used to work every Xmas day, and so my mum would come to us then we'd go to them sometime around 26-27 and stay a few days)
but MIL has received a pretty scary prognosis and starts treatment this week to try and buy her some more time.
Realistically this WILL BE her last Christmas.

I work in a school and finish up next week, so no chance to properly isolate prior to going.

Under the circumstances, even if 'Christmas is cancelled' and the loosening of restrictions is retightened, spending time with her would still be "allowed" as she is vulnerable / compassionate grounds etc.

----
Every part of me is screaming DON'T DO IT!!!
It is stupidly risky to mix even without the serious health implications ( we are different areas & different tiers)
Given the circumstances, it will be hard NOT to hug etc

AIBU to have checked out of making a decision and to have decided to leave it up to OH to decide if we ( me, him, DS 20) go?
He mentioned last night that going on his own could be an option, but that feels weird too.
MIL would love to see us all, and would help take her mind off things plus it would give FIL a break as someoneelse can take over for a bit.

They would want to do all the food etc, as 'hosting' is important to them. I think they'd be really hurt if we said "we'll bring our own"
Same with setting the table (which is small and in their kitchen)

There would be 3 of us, 2 of them, plus BIL & partner. Not sure if the last two realize that this would be the 3 household bubble and the partner couldn't then see their parents.

We are not seeing my mum at all, but that was decided prior to this visit being discussed. We came to the conclusion that we'd all stayed apart thus far, and that it was silly to risk it just because it was Christmas - we're all getting together for Christmas later.

Anyway, I've rambled long enough.... but ultimately even if they say don't do it, I'm going to have to aren't I ?

[quote SideEyeing]@Meredithgrey1 I'm the same![/quote]
I'm horrified that people could think it was sarcasm, quite honestly. It's come to something when people can't just accept that they need to give up their freedom for the good of society. The state of this country makes me despair. We should be like China - I mean, they've totally eradicated it by enforcing isolation. We must do whatever it takes!

The press conference is ominous

@Frostythesnowwoman

I must admit I’m scared about the virus mutation. They seem to be treating it very seriously. If the current vaccines are buggered then I don’t know what we’ll do.

I'm worried about this too :(

I think (from what I’ve gleaned) it’s just that it spreads faster, which means more cases to overwhelm the NHS. Nobody’s said it’s a more dangerous variant in itself, it seems to be the transmissibility.

@Jourdain11 ... Nope, still can't tell?!

If the current vaccines are buggered then I don’t know what we’ll do.

There is no current evidence that it affects vaccines and treatments.

@Jourdain11

Hopefully they'll set road blocks up around London and bring the army in. And an automatic criminal record for anyone caught attempting to breach the regulations. It might be a good moment to set up an official neighbourhood surveillance system, too - with a hotline and financial incentives for people to call up and report their neighbours and friends for flouting the rules.

You are nuts

@WhatWouldTheNeighboursSay in your situation, whatever BJ says doesnt apply. It doesnt matter. You do whatever your MIL wants to do. The only thing thar matters is making that woman happy.

@WhatWouldTheNeighboursSay: I really think it would be a very bad idea for you to visit your MIL with her condition and the fact you have been working in a school. By far your best plan would be to strictly self isolate for 14 days then see her : so may not be possible at Xmas, I’d plan ahead for Easter

@MummaBear4321

I must admit I’m scared about the virus mutation. They seem to be treating it very seriously. If the current vaccines are buggered then I don’t know what we’ll do

This was bound to happen. It's a coronavirus. It mutates. I think if it spirals, we will all just have to accept that it's a threat in life now and get on with it. It will kill people, it will be shit, but we simply cannot be in and out of lockdowns forever. At some point we need to accept the risks that come from nature. As humans who love to conquer and rule everything, we arent good at accepting that we cant control everything.

I can't believe this argument is still doing the rounds!

The point is not that we can't accept death, it's that the NHS will be overwhelmed, morgues will be overwhelmed, there will be no medical treatment available.

And before someone says it - it's not scaremongering! It's literally what would happen if we just let the virus rampage through society unchecked. Not doing anything is not an option.

I think (from what I’ve gleaned) it’s just that it spreads faster, which means more cases to overwhelm the NHS. Nobody’s said it’s a more dangerous variant in itself, it seems to be the transmissibility

If I understood the Whitty statement properly, he said that they have seen that it transmits more readily but there is no evidence that it will defeat the vaccine or produce more serious illness, but further research on all those points is underway

We should be like China

If you want to live in a country where the army has the right to weld you into your apartment, where the concept of data privacy doesn’t exist, where the government can ‘silence’ you for communicating information they don’t want out, then go right ahead and apply for citizenship.

Most of the rest of us understand the enormous cost of such a retime

Regime

Rumour thats just started circulating on political twitter (so not random and seemingly reputable) is new t4 incoming. That would be for london and se with a stay at home message over christmas with bubbles only allowed in t1-t3.

We shall see....

also, is it really wrong that I'm hoping hospital tell her she absolutely needs to isolate during this course of treatment,
Then the decision is out of our hands and we can do Christmas in spring, by which time the current spiking may have eased and some of us may have managed to get vaccinated
(she probably has a few months now, they are hoping treatment extends that and gives her till at least summer)

Jourdain11 I'm still not sure whether you're joking or not.

Us poor Londoners get the blame for everything!

it's that the NHS will be overwhelmed, morgues will be overwhelmed, there will be no medical treatment available.

There are others ways of dealing with that. We have chosen to lockdown instead of contemplating them, but as lockdowns become less and less effective, we may have to rethink.

@RedToothBrush do you have a link

@WhatwouldAnneFrankthinkofus

As much as I don't like Bojo and his cronies, the government can't win on this one. If he imposes lockdown , people will say "what about the businesses, we are finished, we have already bought our turkey to feed three families etc " , if he doesn't impose lockdown and strict rules during Christmas people will say " he's incompetent , NHS is under pressure etc". No one can predict what can happen with a virus and the government are trying their best to please the people(and their own cronies i dare say) and also stop these very people from getting killed by the virus. People have become so very entitled about merry making at Christmas, its no longer a celebration of the birth of Christ. It's just another opportunity for us to indulge ourselves. We are very lucky we don't have to hide underground to stop bombs falling on our heads or that as a nation we don't have to worry about the next flood or famine. Surely we should be able to curtail our eating, drinking , merry making and indulging ourselves for the sake of not only our own health but also for everyone else's health during this pandemic. While we are eating, drinking and indulging ourselves and merry making please remember there will be doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers at work trying to save lives, whilst putting their own lives at risk.

Best post on this thread. A voice of reason.

@RedToothBrush where's this? Searched on twitter and found one tweet from a fake account...

[quote thereinmadnesslies]@RedToothBrush do you have a link[/quote]
@pippacrear
@Gabriel_Pogrund
@janemerrick23
@IsabelHardman

Amongst others...

Thanks for your replies MummaBear and Newbie manager
both are valid and their side by side appearance exactly illustrates the internal argument that I have been having with myself