Are they really going to cancel Christmas?

[fedupfrances]

And if they do, will loads of people just break the rules anyway?

It’s sodding ridiculous - myself and DP have barely left the house last week and won’t be going out this week either, other than walks in our local park. My parents have also been at home pretty much constantly. None of us has Covid 19 and the risk of catching it if we get together at Christmas is practically zero. So fed up with this shite!

@PrincessNutNuts (love the name)

I agree. And it’s evidenced all over social media and MN.

Whether it seems ridiculous to others or not, there are plenty of people who just WONT create that conflict by refusing to mix, when their families are stamping their feet saying they government have said we can meet so why are you ruining everyone’s Christmas for no reason yada yada.

I’ve already been accused of withholding my children from their grandparents on Christmas. And how utterly cruel it is for me to do so for ‘no good reason’ because all they are willing to hear is Bojo saying it’s fine to mix. And me saying No anyway.

I believe I’m doing the right thing. I believe this is the responsible and safe way to go. I can stand my ground. No matter how emotive the language and no matter how aggressive the tantrums over it. MANY won’t be able to.

@Bimbleboo but he has never said its fine to mix and its risk free they have said its risky and to be careful etc people only seem to hear what they want

@MercyBooth maybe he is exempt plenty are

@timeforanewstart Agreed.

"Covid 19: Christmas relaxation will overwhelm services"

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4847

"This joint editorial is only the second in the more than 100 year histories of The BMJ and the Health Service Journal. We are publishing it because we believe the government is about to blunder into another major error that will cost many lives. If our political leaders fail to take swift and decisive action, they can no longer claim to be protecting the NHS."

How clever are the government.

Whatever happens now, our fault. Not theirs.

Good on you @Bimbleboo.

There is definitely an emotional blackmail factor mixed in with the denial of reality with my family too.

My mum is the sort that usually smooths everything over all the time but once in a while spectacularly blows her top. I think that might be on the cards if my siblings don't acknowledge the danger to my dad and do the right thing - instead of riding roughshod over my parents worries because they (siblings) just want their usual Christmas.

@Codswallop20

How clever are the government.

Whatever happens now, our fault. Not theirs.

It's down to us now.

But it's still their fault.

@secretllama

I dont think many people will care if they do or don't cancel. The whole point was that they knew people were going to break the rules at Christmas anyway so it was to give an illusion as still having power over the population with the guidelines.

They may be coming down but they'll go up again soon enough. It's not going away

Cancel Christmas? They can't. It's impossible. What a stupid headline. Why use this? It's just scaremongering and dramatising and hacks me off.

Leaders discussed cutting the number of days families can meet from five to three; reducing the number of households mixing from three to two; and introducing travel restrictions –

Hopefully Boris will have the strength to implement this. Hardly dramatic changes. Only minor change.

Even he words 'cancelling Christmas, makes me so angry. Why say it? Are you just trying to a fuel peoples anxiety? really pisses me off.

[quote timeforanewstart]@Trickyboy but lots are visiting others and not elderly just other siblings who are all working , have kids at school
My parents are in there 60's both working , going to the supermarket have a college age person living with them who Also has a job , all these things are a risk as well
Some have taken their kids out already and are staying home to limit the risk , something the goverment could if allowed
Many of these same at risk grandparents look after their grandchildren so there frontline worker children can go to work , so see these kids and have them in there home daily - does xmas suddenly put them at a bigger risk
Yes i agree suddenly visting an elderly person who has been pretty much isolating for first time in months is a big risk but lots of people are having these risks day in day out just to be able to go to
Work and school
How many older or at risk teachers are being put in a room everyday with 30 odd pupils , [/quote]
This is it many households have formed extended bubbles and nobody is telling them they are killing their family. Seeing my Mum and Dad doesn’t radically change the risks from if one of them lived alone and we’d formed a bubble. Many grandparents have now formed bubbles with families with a baby under 1.

There is a big assumption that grandparents are in their 70s constantly repeated on here. Many are much, much younger than that and still at work every day, they aren’t all locked away. In fact my Parents only a few years older than some of the older parents at school.

My parents are at far less risk from us now especially as my kids secondary school closed last week so kids have been isolating since the 8th and 10th. Both my parents will be at home as they don’t work for the two week Christmas break so are in contact with far fewer children and adults on a daily basis. Unless people are not working and not going out at all there are risks all the time in any part of daily life. For us meeting them is less risk than normal life.

News reporting no changes to Xmas plans - just advice to stay local but it’s advice so no change basicslly

@Ginogineli

News reporting no changes to Xmas plans - just advice to stay local but it’s advice so no change basicslly

Papers also saying Boris will give a statement today urging people to self-isolate until the 25th as well. Yet yesterday his Education Secretary was threatening to sue councils and schools to force them to stay open so there isn't enough time now for kids, teachers and support staff to self-isolate properly by then! They have fucked this up so badly.

So much judgement on this thread.

For the record I don't plan travel to Wales see family.
Haven't seen them since summer once.
However I don't judge people who want to meet and made arrangements because the government screwed up and released details too early.

I don't even think drakeford would cancel.
Feels inevitable we see another lockdown .
But the last mockdown we said was needed to ensure we had good xmas.

Its the DFE that are highly irresponsible not allowing families time to isolate before xmas and bot allowing extra time new year to ensure its not further spread to schools.

All I see from evidence is

Children do get corona and transmit hence why they included in rule of 6.
Covid does spread in school and we told by van tam himself that it then spreads yo other age group.
No shielding anymore vulnerable kids and vulnerable parents expected attend school.
They fastest growing rate if infections.
Many don't show symptoms.
Nearly 700k kids off school self isolating in a week is not schools open.
Their insistence on schools open with no measures to make them safer or adjust to rising rates will screw nhs and the economy over.

There is logic in the fact that those families who have seen Granny / Grandad for Childcare ought to be able to see them at Christmas but there are plenty of people on here who are planning to travel and stay over in the houses of relatives who they don't normally see for Christmas. There is most definitely a risk to the latter.

It is an impossible situation. I'm glad my family have made it easy by asking us not to visit this year.

I am astounded though that churches in all tiers will be open for services over the festive period as long as you only attend with your bubble. In our church if everyone's bubble went (which is effectively what happens every year) then Church will be crammed on Christmas eve. You won't be able to be separate from other people's bubbles due to lack of space.

@Oblomov20

Cancel Christmas? They can't. It's impossible. What a stupid headline. Why use this? It's just scaremongering and dramatising and hacks me off.

Leaders discussed cutting the number of days families can meet from five to three; reducing the number of households mixing from three to two; and introducing travel restrictions –

Hopefully Boris will have the strength to implement this. Hardly dramatic changes. Only minor change.

Even he words 'cancelling Christmas, makes me so angry. Why say it? Are you just trying to a fuel peoples anxiety? really pisses me off.

Agree with this. “Cancel Christmas” isn’t possible because Christmas is a day, the birthday of Jesus? Just because you can’t see all your family it doesn’t mean Christmas is cancelled, many people celebrate it at home without visiting family, every year people spend Christmas totally alone. If you have a family that live with you then it’s not the end of the world that you can’t travel to see other family members, you can still celebrate Christmas at home?

@cantdothisnow1 I know! My FIL has banned my MIL from going to shops but he's allowed to go to church 🙄

[quote timeforanewstart]@Bimbleboo but he has never said its fine to mix and its risk free they have said its risky and to be careful etc people only seem to hear what they want[/quote]
They are giving unclear and misleading directions. But then again, they have form in being rubbish.

People might think "if it was that bad it wouldn't be allowed"
Other people think they mean the vulnerable should take extra care

I am astounded though that churches in all tiers will be open for services over the festive period as long as you only attend with your bubble. In our church if everyone's bubble went (which is effectively what happens every year) then Church will be crammed on Christmas eve. You won't be able to be separate from other people's bubbles due to lack of space.

Every church in my local area is either prebooking or making it clear that once all seats (which are set out socially distanced and so much fewer than usual) are gone they're gone; I've looked because our church will continue to be entirely shut and I really wanted to go to a service but I feel I can't justify taking a space from the regular congregation for that church.

@herecomesthsun exactly. Sure, many People ARE only hearing what they want m. But the government know that. It’s their job to factor that in. They are even more brainless than I thought if they believe people are going to stay 2 metres apart and sit with windows wide open in U.K. December. They won’t.
The ‘you should do the minimum possible for your family’ is the most ridiculous statement I’ve heard. People will interpret the ‘minimum possible for their family’ as being whatever is legal for them to do.
Many because of the conflict it will create if they refuse to see family when big Bojo has okayed it.

Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford
Here's what the Government is looking at on Christmas:
* The 5-day period and 3 household rule will remain unchanged
* People will be told to rethink Christmas with elderly relatives
* People urged to celebrate locally & avoid public transport

@Hardbackwriter

I am astounded though that churches in all tiers will be open for services over the festive period as long as you only attend with your bubble. In our church if everyone's bubble went (which is effectively what happens every year) then Church will be crammed on Christmas eve. You won't be able to be separate from other people's bubbles due to lack of space.

Every church in my local area is either prebooking or making it clear that once all seats (which are set out socially distanced and so much fewer than usual) are gone they're gone; I've looked because our church will continue to be entirely shut and I really wanted to go to a service but I feel I can't justify taking a space from the regular congregation for that church.

That's reassuring.

I suspect many will do online services so that people can worship without the risk.

I think at our church, you have to reserve a place for each service you wish to attend. I'm not going though. I'll pray at home! Sad to miss out on the little traditions, but I'm not taking the risk.

"Easter can be the new Christmas." says government minister Robert Jenrick this morning. Presumably right before the government say you can still have the old Christmas if you really want.

I guess that it might be a good way to rebrand Easter and get us all to send presents to each other for Easter as well. Make it a more cheery festival rather than the rather depressing one about death that we are used to.

I give up. I really do. What is tomorrows's government daily lunacy?