Why do people seem so certain that restrictions will go on and on

[HallFloor]

Once we've got all the over 80s vaccinated, surely the death rate will be so low that there could be no possible justification to continue with the restrictions?

Yes, I know some unfortunate people will still suffer but the vast majority of deaths have been in the over 80s. There have and always will be viruses that are dangerous to some, we don't close everything down.

It's hard to understand why people are so tethered to their gloomy outlook and dire predictions. They seem to have really dug their heels in since their insistence that we won't see an effective vaccine approved this side of 2022 has fallen to pieces.

@FourTeaFallOut

It's hard to understand why people are so tethered to their gloomy outlook and dire predictions. They seem to have really dug their heels in since their insistence that we won't see an effective vaccine approved this side of 2022 has fallen to pieces.

I get quite confused with some posts so apologies if I have the wrong end of the stick

Are you thinking that people who expect longer restrictions actually want them?

No, I don't. I think they insulate themselves from bad fortune by imagining the worst case scenario and then being pleasantly surprised by anything that falls short of that.

It's just that this is usually achieved by robbing everyone around them of hope to legitimise the approach.

There has been pathetically little attempt at infection control

What attempts at infection control would you like to see that haven’t been done?

@AcornAutumn of course Matt Hancock said that, the same as many other countries- a proven way to reduce the spread of any disease is to separate people and limit contacts. The fact he said this is not evidence that it is about people control (and for what it’s worth I really dislike Matt Hancock)

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

There has been pathetically little attempt at infection control

What attempts at infection control would you like to see that haven’t been done?

No open bays on covid wards

If they can make nightingales, they could have organised more barriers in existing hospitals

The PPE for staff should have been ready and they should have used what they had instead of saying it wasn’t up to scratch.

People should have been asked to quarantine coming back from ski resorts, other covid hotspots, with hotels etc at airports used for it instead of totally empty at lockdown

Quarantine and testing should have been led by existing nhs staff - I know senior directors at the nhs spoke out about being entirely omitted from the system But they were silenced fast!

My father was in infectious diseases- tthey should be managed by the doctors, nurses and admin staff at a local level as they were in the past

As I type I realise I’ve posted a list of these before, next time I’ll copy and paste but you can find it if you search it

Quarantined households should have had the targeted support instead of flinging money around to private firms

I won’t go into the care home saga as I’m sure everyone knows it.

It really worries me that locking up healthy people is now seen as infection control, that some doctors and sone nurses refuse to be near infected patients when it’s their damn job.

Then again, I should have realised how inhuman some of them are when my father was looked down on by some colleagues for dealing with AIDS patients.

My doctor warned me about what she thought was a strange pneumonia in January. I’m CV. The scientists didn’t listen. They are far too excited about their investments.

The overall reaction has been all social control and no medical steps. Look at how HCQ was rejected and even vilified in the Lancet study.

The BMJ have spoken out about the medical pointlessness of mass testing, it’s just a tool for mass control.

[quote Lifeispassingby]@AcornAutumn of course Matt Hancock said that, the same as many other countries- a proven way to reduce the spread of any disease is to separate people and limit contacts. The fact he said this is not evidence that it is about people control (and for what it’s worth I really dislike Matt Hancock)[/quote]
It’s really not the only way. He said it back in January when no one was even asked to quarantine after coming back from a covid hit area,

Do you not find any of this odd? Have you friends or relatives in covid wards, sharing the viral load in open bays when the exposure to more viral load is considered to be a problem?

@RayOfSunshine2013

Because we were told in march that this would be a two week lockdown. Then it would all be good when there was a vaccination. Now theres a vaccination but even the vaccinated still need to wear a mask

This is nothing to do with a virus anymore

We weren't told it would be a 2 week lockdown at all. I specifically remember when people were pushing for lockdown Chris Whitty & Bojo saying they had to time it right because they didn't want to start too early because it's hard for people to maintain for long amounts of time.

@AcornAutumn I didn’t say it was he only way, rather that it is a way. I was simply pointing out that he fact that MH said this isn’t people controlling, it’s is a proven method of infection control.

Restrictions are likely to remain in place as there is still no clarity about whether someone who has had the vaccine can still spread the virus. Until this is clear restrictions will need to remain surely?

@FourTeaFallOut

It's just that this is usually achieved by robbing everyone around them of hope to legitimise the approach.

By whom? In real,life or social media?

I speak as I find. The government love the power and didn’t even know how care home staff operate. They needed some ground staff on their committees.

I don’t want to upset anyone. I just think that lockdowns now look normal and that’s a huge problem. I didn’t want any of this, it made me suicidal. But when someone starts a thread saying “how long” I say what I think.

I’m not a fan of false hope, I want to plan ahead a bit and I’d like to take a realistic view rather than anything else.

I still think some posters think “normal” includes mass testing of the asymptomatic, masks mandated and T&T everywhere, I don’t think they mean “normal” by May as in, let’s pop to the National Gallery because we fancy it.

[quote Lifeispassingby]@AcornAutumn I didn’t say it was he only way, rather that it is a way. I was simply pointing out that he fact that MH said this isn’t people controlling, it’s is a proven method of infection control.[/quote]
Maybe if you do it forever. But otherwise, no, it’s not. Unless you want to shut down everything and literally live in wasteland with the army delivering bread and water.

[quote Lifeispassingby]@AcornAutumn I didn’t say it was he only way, rather that it is a way. I was simply pointing out that he fact that MH said this isn’t people controlling, it’s is a proven method of infection control.[/quote]
Also, if you don’t see criminalising someone for popping to a neighbour as population control, what IS your definition? Where do you draw the line at interference in our lives?

I would agree with you if I hadn't already heard so much bullshit about how we must all hide in our houses until 80% of the population is vaccinated. Complete and utter bollocks. People have been vulnerable to disease since the dawn of time, and if we get through vaccinating the supposedly 30% that are at risk, I see zero justification for restricting the rest of the population. And this crap about vulnerable people, again, what's new there? Some people can't get vaccinated, but we don't shut the country down because some people can't get the measles vaccine, do we. I've not read this thread but I already know it'll be full of shit.

But false hope can only be declared in hindsight, in absence of a crystal ball it's just plain hope.

This year we had the self declared realists insist that 1) a vaccine wouldn't be possible 2) that it would take years to make 3) it wouldn't be very effective 4) it would never get approval 5) that we'd never find a fridge to put it in.

Endless doom-mongering is not a sensible substitute for forecasting what happens next.

@FourTeaFallOut

But false hope can only be declared in hindsight, in absence of a crystal ball it's just plain hope.

This year we had the self declared realists insist that 1) a vaccine wouldn't be possible 2) that it would take years to make 3) it wouldn't be very effective 4) it would never get approval 5) that we'd never find a fridge to put it in.

Endless doom-mongering is not a sensible substitute for forecasting what happens next.

Again, I dint know where you saw or heard that

But I’d say that with the Act in place for two years, many things were highly predictable. Ditto seasonal virus. I think masks are due for review in December- that timing makes it an easy guess as to the result.

I will say that I think no vaccine is guaranteed and I don’t think it’s doom mongering to say that.

For me, false hope is the people saying “oh things will be better in a couple of months”. No. But I guess some people have to say that to get through the day, so in real life, when I hear it, I keep quiet.

It does get annoying when people express astonishment at still being restricted. I wonder what planet they live on.

Where did I see all that? Everywhere although I suppose people are more unguarded in their options online so their fears are more fleshed out.

I think once we see those in the phase 1 of the vaccinations protected from severe illness and death with a vaccine then we'll see a much needed step down in terms of widespread restrictions. And I do think that that will happen before April.

I think, when people say things will be better in a few months, they mean better than now and don't expect it to have been consigned to history in a few months.

I think, in this country, by summer the big challenges ahead will be dealing with the social and economic fall out of coronavirus rather than the virus itself.

Four “ I think once we see those in the phase 1 of the vaccinations protected from severe illness and death with a vaccine then we'll see a much needed step down in terms of widespread restrictions. And I do think that that will happen before April. ”

I really really want you to be right about this.

Well, I'm not above an I told you so if I'm wrong, but it is my honest and considered opinion based on the very small population that needs to be immunised to see the mortality rate tumble.

This is my favourite numbers game, I've posted it elsewhere and it was Ridley pinched from another mnetter...

www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/coronavirus/2020/12/how-covid-19-vaccines-could-rapidly-reduce-uk-s-death-rate

And while it's never as simple as a maths calculation and you have to factor in the unpredictability of life and human inefficiency, I think April will look different and better.

Rudely!

I think I’d agree with most, if not all of those measures, Acorn.

I don’t think this is about control though. It’s about competence, or lack of it. along with a sizeable dose of ‘this government don’t know how to govern, they only know how to campaign’. So we get blitz spirit & 3 part slogans and Angelou’s nonsense like covid secure being used to describe places that are moderate to high risk. Forgetting they are actually in charge and this isn’t just a manifesto pledge you can bury.

I don’t think we’d be in half such a mess with schools if Boris hadn’t boldly (and stupidly) pledged on TV in May that they’d be opening schools in full.

@FourTeaFallOut

Well, I'm not above an I told you so if I'm wrong, but it is my honest and considered opinion based on the very small population that needs to be immunised to see the mortality rate tumble.

I realise this is a board and you don’t know me

So when I say I want you to be right - I really mean it. I don’t want to say I told you so. I don’t want to find myself on the edge again.

It’s the court cases that gave me the most false hope I think. And the protests. I thought maybe we could get somewhere but no, I should have stuck with my original views.

The government is loving the control and restrictions

How do you know this? Have they discussed it with you and admitted this?

Honestly your arguments would be much more persuasive if you didn’t come out with vague nonsense like this.