Will you take the vaccine?

[Doddlebug2000]

Will you take the vaccine and why?
Just curious to different opinions on this really!

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel actually, natural infection often induces stronger and longer lasting immunity after a single infection whereas vaccine induced immunity can take several doses and can wane over time. It’s just that, for some diseases, there are more risks associated with natural infection (sometimes in certain groups in particular) so it makes sense to vaccinate, even though the immunity may not last as long and might need boosted.

[quote bumbleymummy]@TheCountessofFitzdotterel actually, natural infection often induces stronger and longer lasting immunity after a single infection whereas vaccine induced immunity can take several doses and can wane over time. It’s just that, for some diseases, there are more risks associated with natural infection (sometimes in certain groups in particular) so it makes sense to vaccinate, even though the immunity may not last as long and might need boosted.[/quote]
It depends on the virus. For coronaviruses natural immunity doesn't appear to be long-lived.

[quote bumbleymummy]@TheCountessofFitzdotterel actually, natural infection often induces stronger and longer lasting immunity after a single infection whereas vaccine induced immunity can take several doses and can wane over time. It’s just that, for some diseases, there are more risks associated with natural infection (sometimes in certain groups in particular) so it makes sense to vaccinate, even though the immunity may not last as long and might need boosted.[/quote]
That’s interesting- my understanding was that vaccines are able to be fine tuned with adjuvants etc to produce a longer lasting immunity than natural infection, but I am no expert and don’t know whether it is more common for them to work better or worse than natural infection.

I'm in the trial so if I've had the placebo I'll
definitely take it I'm a NHS worker amd trust the process has been robust and safe just from
my experiences on the trial programme

Yes I definitely will but am a little nervous about the timing as I haven't yet fully recovered from covid. I have also signed up to deliver it, on top of my own job, because I am so damn excited about getting it done and as moving on from this mess.

I will definitely take it. I don't want to spread the virus to vulnerable people and it will also be a requirement for travel to many countries. Australia, in particular.

JS87 recent studies have found that it lasts for 6+ months. There were also a few studies showing t-cell immunity in people who were not known to have had cv (possible crossover protection?) Anyway, it’s possible that the cv vaccine may become an annual thing, like the flu vaccine. We may find that immunity from natural infection lasts longer or not. My point was simply that immunity from vaccination isn’t always stronger/longer lasting as the pp said.

No.

Your example is 50 year old. I said 80/90+. Let's be fair, the majority at that age will have form of help. Obv. not everyone

My nana was 91 last year. She lived alone, albeit in the type of bungalow that has the red cords for emergencies. She did her own shopping, she still drove. She was pretty much independent for almost everything.

Covid stopped that as she had to stay in and rely on family help. She hated it. She went downhill fairly rapidly in isolation I'm afraid and sadly died this summer.

My other nana was the same age (91) and was fairly sprightly but not to the same extend. She relied on family to help her, especially after my grandad died 18 months ago. She died in May after an illness. She died in hospital with covid, though it wasn't covid that actually took her (nor was it recorded that way) So she had help but no official carers, etc.

There are many 80-90 year olds without outside carers, and several who are still very much independent.

[quote trulydelicious]@Veterinari

No, the process for mRNA vaccines is not how you describe it, it is as follows

mRNA is injected into the body and enters cells, where it provides instructions to produce antigens. The cell then presents the antigens to the immune system, preparing the body to fight the disease

This quote is from the Pfizer website itself.

So your cells are given instructions by the mRNA to produce the antigen and then your immune system is expected to produce antibodies against the antigen that you have yourself produced[/quote]
Yes but the mRNA is a tiny sequence of the whole virus MRNA

Traditional vaccines use a whole virus particle including all of the viral mRNA to do this same process.

So why would you be more concerned about an mRNA fragment than a whole virus particle?

Yes please! Well done the scientists. 2 asthmatics in the family.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel It does depend on the disease. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens with this one over time.

@keeperswif when do you find out which injection you got?

I absolutely will be having the vaccine as soon as it is offered to me. I cannot bloody wait. Just imagine being able to go round to friends for a coffee, or being able to go to the cinema.

@OhYouBadBadKitten when I get called up for a vaccine they will tell me I'm top of the list as a front line NHS worker

Just imagine being able to go round to friends for a coffee, or being able to go to the cinema.

I think this sums up my point. Some people are waiting to do fun stuff, whilst others are waiting to be able to carry on with their lives. Get a job safely, send their kids in without fear of getting hospitalized, etc.
I'm just saying that prioritizing coffee over earning money is not reason enough imo.

@Aragog Sorry for your loss, truly!
As i said, obv. not all really old people are dependent on others. But let's be fair: the majority are to some extent. And I don't wish them harm by any means. It's just that an 80+ person can limit their movement by choice without having effect than feeling really bad about it, whilst a working age + kids can't. Or if they do their is a much bigger repercussion: lost education and/or lost income.

I have been made redundant in sept as we lost 95% of our clients. I am vulnerable, but not enough to be in any high category, but enough to have my GP tell me actually be very risk averse, don't go to work and if possible keep my kid home. I have about 20% chance of finding a fully remote job. Haven't so far. And as much as I feel for everyone's grandparents I do think that a kid in school and an active taxpayer should be prioritized.

I do agree that neither scenario is fair.

That’s interesting- my understanding was that vaccines are able to be fine tuned with adjuvants etc to produce a longer lasting immunity than natural infection, but I am no expert and don’t know whether it is more common for them to work better or worse than natural infection

It varies. Eg chicken pox and rubella vaccines tend to wear o eventually, hence why women are often found to be rubella non immune in pregnancy despite having been previously vaccinated, and we don't routinely vaccinate against CP because the vaccine is likely to wear off leaving you vulnerable to the infection as an adult when it is often much more serious.

But yeh I have heard they have managed to change the protein in the pfizer vaccine to apparently make it longer lasting than natural infection. I guess only time will tell, but fingers crossed!

Yes I will. I'm late 50's and husband is mid 60's and both have some vulnerabilities, so we will be offered it eventually.

[quote TheSunIsStillShining]@Kazzyhoward
Your example is 50 year old. I said 80/90+. Let's be fair, the majority at that age will have form of help. Obv. not everyone.[/quote]
My MIL is 80 and has no carers - she still does everything herself with very limited help from the family.

There are also plenty of 80+ people who themselves are carers for disabled spouses, siblings etc.

I'm just saying that prioritizing coffee over earning money is not reason enough imo.

Probably the coffee shop staff would disagree. A lot of the “fun stuff” as you describe it actually pays people’s wages. That’s not to say that I don’t sympathise with your plight and definitely think that the vulnerable should be high up on the list, but it’s not as simple as you make out.

@TheBoots

especially if you're not clear on what you're talking about.

I am clear on what I'm talking about. Also this is in Pfizer's website. I haven't made it up

@MrsFezziwig
you're right and I'm glad I don't have to make the decision. But I would expect gov to make it transparent along which lines they are doing the prioritization.
At the moment it's more along the lines of most potential tory voters + absolutely needed staff

[quote TheSunIsStillShining]@MrsFezziwig
you're right and I'm glad I don't have to make the decision. But I would expect gov to make it transparent along which lines they are doing the prioritization.
At the moment it's more along the lines of most potential tory voters + absolutely needed staff[/quote]
It’s better to look at the group who decided. The JCVI

Membership
Professor Andrew Pollard, Chair (University of Oxford)
Professor Wei Shen Lim, Chair COVID-19 immunisation (Nottingham University Hospitals)
Professor Anthony Harnden, Deputy Chair (University of Oxford)
Professor Judith Breuer (University College Hospital)
Dr Peter Elton (Greater Manchester, Lancashire, South Cumbria Strategic Clinical Network)
Dr Maggie Wearmouth (East Sussex Healthcare NHS Trust)
Professor Matt Keeling (University of Warwick)
Alison Lawrence (lay member)
Professor Robert Read (Southampton General Hospital)
Professor Anthony Scott (London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine)
Professor Adam Finn (University of Bristol)
Dr Fiona van der Klis (National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, Netherlands)
Professor Maarten Postma (University of Groningen)
Professor Simon Kroll (Imperial College London)
Dr Martin Williams (University Hospitals Bristol)
Professor Jeremy Brown (University College London Hospitals)

The coffee shop can reopen much faster once risk of overwhelming NHS recedes, and that only happens wen those most likely to fall seriously ill have that risk reduced by vaccine to similar or lower than the young healthy population

I won't. Not in the first run of it anyway. Maybe a year or two down the line when we know more about a brand new vaccine that was rushed passed legislation without all the correct protocols.

@trulydelicious

"I am clear on what I'm talking about. Also this is in Pfizer's website. I haven't made it up"

I'm not suggesting you're making it up, the mechanism of action of RNA vaccines is quite clear. What you don't appear to be clear on is how viruses work and why RNA vaccines shouldn't be thought of as frightening. Your post I originally responded to was scare-mongering.