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Original poster

MHRA approves Pfizer jab for use in UK

615 replies

AuntieStella · 02/12/2020 07:05

News just breaking on BBC

OP posts:
Kazzyhoward · 02/12/2020 13:20

@Parker231

The government have said they won’t be making it mandatory although other countries can restrict enter without a vaccination certificate.
And so can individual employers, airlines, etc etc. Employers may not be able to sack an employee who refuses a vaccine but they could restrict the work they do and such employees may find their career prospects limited.
PrivateD00r · 02/12/2020 13:23

Regarding NHS workers - not all those I know plan of having it. In my mind, they fall in to the same category as the women DH saw at the gym this morning - not sanitizing equipment before or after use, nor showering (no water), before they did a quick 10 minute change and went off to work - in their nurses uniforms!

I am taking this with a pinch of salt..... may have looked like 'nurse' uniforms but could have been anything, many wear similar. It would be very rare for a nurse to break the rule of wearing their uniform to travel to work. They would obviously be seen coming in and would be reprimanded.

PuzzledObserver · 02/12/2020 13:23

So much catastrophising.

So many dead and long-term ill people. I would like to see an end to that, and personally I don’t believe that social distancing and all that will do the job any time soon. They slow it down, they don’t stop it. Meanwhile, millions are suffering isolation, economic ruin and mental health issues.

There may be people damaged by the vaccine, yes. We don’t know how many. Tens, hundreds, thousands?

We have in front of us the tens of thousands of excess deaths and long Covid sufferers - numbers which will only rise if we allow the virus to do its thing unrestrained; and the economic and social victims - in their millions - who will continue to suffer if we don’t.

Or, we could vaccinate, avoid the vast majority of deaths and long Covid cases, AND put an end to the isolation and start the long painful economic recovery.

My sleeve is rolled up ready.

ForBlueSkies · 02/12/2020 13:26
  • I don't agree. I'm not saying I'm not a little bit wary, as well as happy with the news, but the fact we have approved it first, doesn't automatically indicate that we haven't been as diligent. It could just indicate that the MHRA are a cut above other health regulators.

Somewhere has to approve first.*

I’m sorry but when have we been the most efficient and effective in anything to do with this pandemic? Efficiency and this country are not things that sit too well alongside each other.

One thing we do have is a reckless, careless leader. To be clear: I trust this vaccine. Pfizer have done a great job. I’m just concerned this kind of heady rush will get us into trouble with the AZ vaccine, which is far more problematic.

Belladonna12 · 02/12/2020 13:27

@ThornAmongstRoses

I think it will become mandatory for NHS workers to have it.

What are the NHS going to do? Sack all the nurses, doctors, physio’s, dieticians, SALT’s, Specialist nurses and cleaners (and god knows how many other branches of hospital staff) if any of them don’t want it?

They can restrict the work they do. They can not renew the contracts of the many temporary workers and sack those on casual contracts. They can overlook people for promotion. They can probably do quite a lot if they want to.
PrivateD00r · 02/12/2020 13:29

It is amazing how quickly people turned on the NHS. I now have to wear a coat zipped right up to my chin whilst driving between calls in my car because members of the public complained about seeing us in our uniforms. Obviously community staff have no choice but to drive around in a uniform. But to ease the fear of the public and improve the perception of us - we must cover up our uniforms because the public assume we are travelling to or from work. This started in June, was fun in the heat!

The attitude from some to NHS staff on here is shocking.

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2020 13:29

David Nabarro WHO talking about how well-regarded U.K. and MRHA is world wide just now

ForBlueSkies · 02/12/2020 13:31

Seriously jingoism like this: “The U.K. is leading humanity’s charge against the disease” has me face palming. It needs to stop. We’re not leading anything. Europe and the US taking a couple of extra days to be thorough and evaluate the data doesn’t change anything. We have the second worst per capita death toll in Europe.

ForBlueSkies · 02/12/2020 13:32

@MarshaBradyo

David Nabarro WHO talking about how well-regarded U.K. and MRHA is world wide just now
He’s English! 🤦‍♀️
MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2020 13:33

Well I’m sure he’s not alone Grin

But seriously some people just go on and on about how bad U.K. is at everything. I’m dual passport and find it depressing and odd.

GoldenOmber · 02/12/2020 13:35

The MHRA actually is really good at its job. I don’t disagree that Boris Johnson is an awful PM, but he doesn’t mean that everything ever done by anything within the country is doomed to failure.

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2020 13:37

No matter what is done there is someone piping up with the U.K. negativity. Must be wearing to always see the worst in where you live.

Of course the U.K. attracts experts and is highly regarded in many areas. Even if some say not.

bengalcat · 02/12/2020 13:37

Like many others on here my sleeve will be rolled up and waiting - no one I work with ( NHS ) has voiced reservations about having it .

SirChing · 02/12/2020 13:39

The attitude from some to NHS staff on here is shocking

In what way is it shocking? The public, rightly, expect NHS staff to set an example when it comes to matters of health. For some NHS staff to come on and say they won't have the vaccine, because they are wary, is really disappointing. They aren't exactly being advocates for evidence-based practice! And yes, in the same way that I wouldn't have been allowed to train if I had refused a Hep vaccine, there should also be similar repercussions for those who refuse to vaccinate against a potentially serious illness.

If healthcare workers don't trust the science of their own field, it legitimizes all the anti-vaxxers out there, and undermines the public health body that they work for.

PuzzledObserver · 02/12/2020 13:44

The problem is people will have the vaccine and think I’m safe and off they go about their normal life but really its run out after x amount of time and they are vulnerable and could carrying the virus and passing it on.

I’m not a scientist. But, as a reasonably intelligent person, if I had been involved in running the trials, would I wave goodbye to the participants as soon as the vaccine was authorised? I would not.

Instead, I would continue to follow up trial participants, regularly testing them for both antibodies and T-cells. And probably Covid infection as well. Once they showed signs of immunity waning, we would have six months’ notice of the need to provide a booster jab to the general public.

ThornAmongstRoses · 02/12/2020 13:47

The public, rightly, expect NHS staff to set an example when it comes to matters of health. For some NHS staff to come on and say they won't have the vaccine, because they are wary, is really disappointing

So what’s the answer? Do you think they should be pinned down and vaccinated just because they are NHS staff?

Is it just doctors and nurses you feel this way about, or are you disappointed in anyone who works for the NHS in any capacity that doesn’t want it?

EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall · 02/12/2020 13:47

When I was training to be a nurse I had to have the mmr. I also had to be tested again for TB as I hadn't needed it as a teen, turned out I had to have that too. I always thought certain vaccinations were compulsory when working for the NHS

LadyBishyBarnaby · 02/12/2020 13:47

As already discussed, other regulators won’t be far behind in approving this, and given the supply-chain issues that the UK is likely to experience once Brexit kicks in on the 1st January, other countries will probably vaccinate far more people sooner than the UK.

Belladonna12 · 02/12/2020 13:49

@EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall

When I was training to be a nurse I had to have the mmr. I also had to be tested again for TB as I hadn't needed it as a teen, turned out I had to have that too. I always thought certain vaccinations were compulsory when working for the NHS
Yes, I remember seeing occupational health to make sure that all my vaccinations. I can't remember there being any question about whether I wanted it.
Kazzyhoward · 02/12/2020 13:49

@PrivateD00r

Regarding NHS workers - not all those I know plan of having it. In my mind, they fall in to the same category as the women DH saw at the gym this morning - not sanitizing equipment before or after use, nor showering (no water), before they did a quick 10 minute change and went off to work - in their nurses uniforms!

I am taking this with a pinch of salt..... may have looked like 'nurse' uniforms but could have been anything, many wear similar. It would be very rare for a nurse to break the rule of wearing their uniform to travel to work. They would obviously be seen coming in and would be reprimanded.

You're joking right? It's entirely normal for nurses to wear their uniforms to/from work around here. They may be reprimanded in your hospital, but not in ours.
Belladonna12 · 02/12/2020 13:52

@ThornAmongstRoses

The public, rightly, expect NHS staff to set an example when it comes to matters of health. For some NHS staff to come on and say they won't have the vaccine, because they are wary, is really disappointing

So what’s the answer? Do you think they should be pinned down and vaccinated just because they are NHS staff?

Is it just doctors and nurses you feel this way about, or are you disappointed in anyone who works for the NHS in any capacity that doesn’t want it?

They don't need to pin people down. They can just not renew contracts if they are on temporary ones which many people are. They can overlook people for promotion. They can restrict the areas they work in. Like any employer, they can make life difficult.
JS87 · 02/12/2020 13:52

This is what JCVI says today about phase 2 (below group 9)

The next phase – further reduction in hospitalisation and
targeted vaccination of those at high risk of exposure and/or
those delivering key public services
As the first phase of the programme is rolled out in the UK, additional
data will become available on the safety and effectiveness of COVID-19
vaccines. These data will provide the basis for consideration of
vaccination in groups that are at lower risk of mortality from COVID-19. The Committee is currently of the view that the key focus for the second phase of vaccination could be on further preventing hospitalisation. Vaccination of those at increased risk of exposure to SARS-CoV-2 due to their occupation could also be a priority in the next phase. This could include first responders, the military, those involved in the justice system, teachers, transport workers, and public servants essential to the pandemic response. Priority occupations for vaccination are considered an issue of policy, rather than for JCVI to advise on. JCVI asks that the Department of Health and Social Care consider occupational vaccination in collaboration with other Government departments.
Wider use of COVID-19 vaccines will provide a better understanding of
whether they can prevent infection and onward transmission in the
population. Data on vaccine impact on transmission, along with data on vaccine safety and effectiveness, will potentially allow for consideration of vaccination across the rest of the population.
As trials in children and pregnant women are completed, we will also
gain a better understanding of the safety and effectiveness of the
vaccines in these persons.

ThornAmongstRoses · 02/12/2020 13:55

They can just not renew contracts if they are on temporary ones which many people are. They can overlook people for promotion. They can restrict the areas they work in. Like any employer, they can make life difficult.

And you think that’s ok do you?

Staff should have to choose between having something injected in to them that they don’t want, or be treated like you’ve described above?

As if there weren’t already enough perks of working for the NHS.

Kazzyhoward · 02/12/2020 13:57

@ThornAmongstRoses

The public, rightly, expect NHS staff to set an example when it comes to matters of health. For some NHS staff to come on and say they won't have the vaccine, because they are wary, is really disappointing

So what’s the answer? Do you think they should be pinned down and vaccinated just because they are NHS staff?

Is it just doctors and nurses you feel this way about, or are you disappointed in anyone who works for the NHS in any capacity that doesn’t want it?

Well, the answer is that NHS staff who refuse the vaccine may have their jobs/careers limited as they're not safe to work with vulnerable people (staff nor patients) as not everyone will be able to have the vaccine. Depending on their role, they may find themselves sidelined into "safer" but less rewarding areas of the NHS. They may be required to wear PPE, masks, etc., when staff around them (who've been vaccinated) don't have to. Who knows what may happen, but staff who refuse to be vaccinated may find themselves affected in all kinds of ways.
Kazzyhoward · 02/12/2020 13:57

@ThornAmongstRoses

They can just not renew contracts if they are on temporary ones which many people are. They can overlook people for promotion. They can restrict the areas they work in. Like any employer, they can make life difficult.

And you think that’s ok do you?

Staff should have to choose between having something injected in to them that they don’t want, or be treated like you’ve described above?

As if there weren’t already enough perks of working for the NHS.

Yes, if they're putting other people at risk, it is 100% OK.