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Data & analysis thread, started 1 December

999 replies

NoGoodPunsLeft · 01/12/2020 06:08

New thread!

Link to previous:

Data and analysis thread, started 12 November www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4077794-data-and-analysis-thread-started-12-november

OP posts:
Thread gallery
69
PatriciaHolm · 11/12/2020 19:06

@TheSunIsStillShining

This from Guardian: "UK sees rise in Covid hospitalisations as positive test numbers fall"

Am I misreading something? The numbers are going up, right?

yes - not sure where they've got that from! Someone's done their maths wrong.
boys3 · 11/12/2020 20:03

Looks like close to 60% of cases added today in England are in London, the South East and East of England, three regions which account for around 43% of England’s population.

There is approx a 50:50 split between tier 2 and tier 3 areas for the councils with the highest current seven day rates. Another day or so and Tier 2 councils will be in the majority.

AnyFucker · 11/12/2020 20:11

Another national lockdown looming because of South East numbers rising.

This is their second wave, following the NW and NE.

They should have been in Tier 3. No question in my mind.

MRex · 11/12/2020 20:24

I feel oddly calm looking at the maps for now, but my thing is pattern matching and the pattern looks to me like the spread that started near Bury in August (it was never attributed to Bury, it was called Bolton & Manchester even though it started near Bury).

The bubble of cases that came down from Wimbledon to Malden is now spreading strongly across Cheam and Merton, St Helier now spiking and increases across Mitcham. Bastard virus is following main roads (pubs? buses?). It's going to be a real worry if it keeps spreading up through Tooting and down to Croydon. Meanwhile in the east, Kent cases are spreading further into Essex. In sharp contrast, a healthy low cases streak through central London is meeting Surrey again.

I fear some strains are more transmissible, flats don't help, more working out of the home really doesn't help and rule-breaking pushes it into crisis. Anyway, I would not be surprised to see the central/south part of London and right over in Essex getting severely hammered by end of December. All of London has to go to Tier 3 quite urgently, and Essex needs to be tightened up too.

Jenasaurus · 11/12/2020 20:26

One of our 3 households is in Bromley for Christmas, how high are the numbers there, they were low but not sure if things have changed. I dont know their postcode.

PatriciaHolm · 11/12/2020 20:37

@Jenasaurus

One of our 3 households is in Bromley for Christmas, how high are the numbers there, they were low but not sure if things have changed. I dont know their postcode.
Bromley's cases are rising rapidly I'm afraid; current 7 day rate (to 8th) is up 33% in a week.
MRex · 11/12/2020 20:45

Try expanding the map to look at the area @Jenasaurus; you want to be halfway between Croydon and Orpington and very slightly north, once you see Bromley you can then drill down.

tootyfruitypickle · 11/12/2020 21:50

@MRex thank you for your excellent analysis.
As the rates go up in the SE and in areas of London and Kent I know well it’s hit how to me again just how much high rates are linked to poverty and low income / working outside the home.

My area has had incredibly low rates the last few weeks but is now rising. It feels like the calm before the storm although we are still much lower than earlier in the autumn. I still know no-one who has had covid but I fear that is likely to change in the new year.

It’s so odd the way it does come in waves. I don’t really understand how this happens .

Wemayhavemetbefore · 11/12/2020 22:00

Are any numbers being published for how many people are being vaccinated per day at the moment? It would be interesting to know, but I haven't seen any - is it taking time to collate the figures across the hospitals, I wonder?

Witchend · 11/12/2020 22:20

It’s so odd the way it does come in waves. I don’t really understand how this happens.

I think this probably could be modelled fairly easily mathematically-like the waves you get on a congested motorway.

I'd guess simply:

Start with 1 person has it. Say they meet 10, pass it on to 4, all those 4 meet 10 and pass it onto 4, and all those pass it to 4 more.

So it's currently increasing rapidly:
1
4
16
64
256...

But then at some point things change. Maybe it's lockdown, taking the contacts from on average 10 down to 2, so even assuming both the contacts get it, instead of 256, only 128 will have it at that point.

Plus people tend to see the same people. So, for example, over a week I regularly see 7 people each week through work or my household. I probably see about another 5 on top of that, but they would be quick meets, possibly outside etc, so less likely to catch it.
The chances are I caught it from one of the regular people I see. So one of the 7. The work group (including me) is 4, the home group (including me) is 5. But if they've infected me, there's not an insignificant chance they will have also infected the rest of the group. So I could only give it to the other group-roughly half the number, so you might find that 128 only give it to 128 others-stabilising the cases.

But then add to as numbers get bigger people change their behaviour. They don't go where they expect there to be many people, they remember not to hug, wash their hands, wear their face mask.

As numbers increase, on average, people are more careful. They're also more likely to think they may have caught it and isolate, they're less likely to go round and see old Aunty Mavis. So that slows numbers down.

But then as numbers decrease again the opposite happens. They get more careless about remembering to keep the distance. They forget to sanitise their hands on the way in, and they might as well go and see Aunty Mavis because they don't know anyone who has it, so they're sure they're fine.

It's never going to be able to totally model it, because human behaviour isn't predictable, but I think the waves do make sense as people adapt to the situation.

TheSunIsStillShining · 11/12/2020 22:56

I'd add in external factors as drivers as well: public holidays, specific weather related events (holidays, ski trips), and religious event (xmas for example).
These can be factored in and counteracted - if one has the brains to do so.

MRex · 11/12/2020 23:02

I think there are many reasons for these slightly odd "waves":

  1. Clusters around superspreaders; many people infect nobody and then along comes someone who infects 80; that leads you sudden huge clumps of people where you're almost guaranteed to find one or more extra superspreaders.
  2. Weather affects transmissibility enormously, as well as people gathering inside. Dry cloudy cold weather looks best for covid to hang around.
  3. Human idiocy; time after time there are people who presume that their big noisy gathering is special and covid free, but it isn't.
  4. People are out and about; many have to go to work or school, so when there are lots of cases this gives opportunity for the little extra increases of a few cases here and there from many people.
  5. People not isolating when they know they are a contact, not wearing masks, not refraining from popping into mum's house when they could just chat outside... The little rulebreaks also add all the few cases here and there.
  6. Lots of little case increases all add up; 3 here, 5 there... then when case levels get high you get another superspreader.
TheSunIsStillShining · 11/12/2020 23:08

"Rapid coronavirus tests rolled out in Liverpool in England missed more than half of those who had Covid-19, preliminary data suggests." (Guardian)

Anyone any actual data on this? If it's true than it is grim on so many levels

teta · 11/12/2020 23:23

More worrying is that these very same rapid tests are being used to test students. These same students will be returning home over the next few days.

Plus hospital doctors twice a week. My sister as a consultant is testing herself twice weekly.

They've been shown to miss a third of severe Covid infections and catch 58% of asymptomatic ones.

PatriciaHolm · 11/12/2020 23:26

@TheSunIsStillShining

"Rapid coronavirus tests rolled out in Liverpool in England missed more than half of those who had Covid-19, preliminary data suggests." (Guardian)

Anyone any actual data on this? If it's true than it is grim on so many levels

www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/media_wysiwyg/UK%20evaluation_PHE%20Porton%20Down%20%20University%20of%20Oxford_final.pdf

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4469#:~:text=The%20BMJ.%20The%20government%20has%20claimed%20that%20rapid,to%20enable%20people%20to%20leave%20lockdown%20or%20

These are what that is referring to I think. The problem seems to be the large missed positives when the test is self-administered - only spotting 58% of positives. it also returns a high level of false positives.

teta · 11/12/2020 23:30

Dies anyone not think the waves are being caused due to the antibodies wearing off after approx. 6 months. London was hit badly earlier on in the first wave, so therefore developed a level of herd immunity. But this has by now has worn off, causing a second wave. The north west is currently going down due to the same reason.

I also think weather has a huge influence . It's been pretty cold for the last couple of weeks.

Augustbreeze · 11/12/2020 23:57

All viruses have waves don't they? Don't know why though.

So the alarming rate of false negatives (never mind false positives, which presumably are a lot less than 42%?) might explain the extremely low infection rates picked up in pre-departing students?

DamnYouAutocucumber · 12/12/2020 00:53

I'm hoping I've transferred the links from the original threads to a format where people can just c&p the ones they want, or add and remove ones which will be most useful. This might be very embarrassing if it's not worked, but can we use this to put the links back into the next op?
UK govt pressers Slides & data www.gov.uk/government/collections/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coronavirus-press-conferences#history
R estimates UK & English regions www.gov.uk/guidance/the-r-number-in-the-uk
Imperial UK weekly LAs, cases / 100k, table, map, hotspots imperialcollegelondon.github.io/covid19local/#table
School statistics Attendance explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/attendance-in-education-and-early-years-settings-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreak
Modelling real number of UK infections February to date Link broken?
NHS England Hospital activity www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/
NHs England Daily deaths www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
MSAO Map of English cases Link broken?
Cases Tracker England Local Government lginform.local.gov.uk/reports/view/lga-research/covid-19-case-tracker
ONS MSAO Map English deaths www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/
CovidMessenger live update by council district in England www.covidmessenger.com/
Scot gov Daily data www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/
Scotland TravellingTabby LAs, care homes, hospitals, tests, t&t www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
PH Wales LAs, tests, ONS deaths public.tableau.com/profile/public.health.wales.health.protection#!/vizhome/RapidCOVID-19virology-Public/Headlinesummary
NI Dashboard app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiZGYxNjYzNmUtOTlmZS00ODAxLWE1YTEtMjA0NjZhMzlmN2JmIiwidCI6IjljOWEzMGRlLWQ4ZDctNGFhNC05NjAwLTRiZTc2MjVmZjZjNSIsImMiOjh9
ICNRC Intensive Care National Audit & Research reports www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports
NHS t&t England & UK testing Weekly stats www.gov.uk/government/collections/nhs-test-and-trace-statistics-england-weekly-reports
PHE Surveillance reports & LA Local Watchlist Maps by LSOA www.gov.uk/government/collections/nhs-test-and-trace-statistics-england-weekly-reports
ONS England infection surveillance report each Friday www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/previousReleases
Datasets for ONS surveillance reports www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/datasets/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveydata/2020
ONS Roundup deaths, infections & economic reports www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19roundup/2020-03-26
Zoe Uk data covid.joinzoe.com/data#interactive-map
ECDC rolling 14-day incidence EEA & UK read://https_www.ecdc.europa.eu/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ecdc.europa.eu%2Fen%2Fcases-2019-ncov-eueea
Worldometer UK page www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Our World in Data GB test positivity etc, DIY country graphs ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/united-kingdom?country=~GBR
FT DIY graphs compare deaths, cases, raw / million pop ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=gbr&areas=fra&areas=esp&areas=ita&areas=deu&areas=swe&areasRegional=usny&areasRegional=usnj&byDate=1&cumulative=1&logScale=1&per100K=1&values=deaths
Alama Personal COVID risk assessment alama.org.uk/covid-19-medical-risk-assessment/
Local Mobility Reports for countries www.google.com/covid19/mobility/
UK Highstreet Tracker for cities & large towns Footfall, spend index, workers, visitors, economic recovery www.centreforcities.org/data/high-streets-recovery-tracker/

⏭ Our STUDIES Corner ⏮www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3869571-Studies-corner?msgid=99913434

We welcome factual, data driven and analytical contributions
Please try to keep discussion focused on these

MRex · 12/12/2020 06:18

Well done @DamnYouAutocucumber.
We had a couple of additional links to add that have arisen since Big Choc left us (hopefully she should come back to join in soon?).
Visualising cases by age: victimofmaths.shinyapps.io/COVID_Cases_By_Age/
@RP131 data of cases by age: coviddatashare.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/Age/20201022/20201022.html
World Poo Analysis: ucmerced.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/c778145ea5bb4daeb58d31afee389082

On the poo topic, Scotland has a nice dashboard in that I don't think we've seen before: informatics.sepa.org.uk/RNAmonitoring/. (England and Wales haven't yet.)

MRex · 12/12/2020 06:29

By the way, did I put up the Safe wastewater report for England? Here it is if not; they can detect individual cases, they're expanding to 80% population, methods, are still too time-consuming so looking to improve and it's being used to inform where to run mass testing: www.gov.uk/government/publications/defrajbc-wastewater-covid-19-monitoring-in-the-uk-summary-19-november-2020.
A JCB and Defra Wastewater Dashboard exists according to this, but I can't find it; possibly it isn't signed off to be public yet while the Scotland one is signed off.

tootyfruitypickle · 12/12/2020 07:13

Thanks @Witchend and @MRex , got it now !

Chaotic45 · 12/12/2020 07:45

@TheSunIsStillShining your comment about festivals and events being preempted and planned for made me shudder- given the plans and rule relaxation around Christmas in the UK.

MRex · 12/12/2020 08:16

The ECDC report is still showing fairly strong decreases across Europe: covid19-country-overviews.ecdc.europa.eu/. It's a very high-level view, but reducing positivity as well as reducing cases looks a little better.
Sorry for the crap screenshot quality:

Data & analysis thread, started 1 December
Firefliess · 12/12/2020 09:36

Thanks for all the links Smile
@teta I think waning antibodies are very unlikely to be a factor behind second waves. The evidence is still that very, very few people have caught Covid more than once, and also that the proportion who've had it at all is still quite low (under 20% across the UK) so there are plenty of new people still available to catch it - more than enough to fuel a second (or third...) wave. I think a more likely explanation for second waves is waning levels of fear of the virus, and waning willingness to go months on end without social contact.

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