So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

[Cinderellashoes]

My sons nursery ask for proof of immunisations for safety. What’s the difference? It’s a vaccine not a microchip

[Sertchgi123]

If we are turning into a nanny state, it’s because so many refuse to educate themselves. The ignorance on here is staggering.

[Muddybuddy]

We “stayed at home to save lives” surely we now have to have the vaccine to save lives. We can’t get out of this godawful situation without it so people should have it in my view

[Bollss]

@Cinderellashoes

My sons nursery ask for proof of immunisations for safety. What’s the difference? It’s a vaccine not a microchip

I'd say the difference is that everything he's immunised for is actually harmful to children his age.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

Gove says vaccination passport is a no go.

[wimto]

Meh - there’s lots of countries you need a vaccine to go to. Well before Covid. My family is dotted around the world so I accepted a long time ago that I’d probably have to get a vaccine that other people see as unnecessary. Yes there are risks involved. But people take risks in all areas of life - you weigh it up like anything else.

Freedom is an interesting concept. There’s people who don’t vaccinate their children now, so I don’t really see how they’re going to enforce it? It’s not even like the U.K. government bothered to track people entering the country from abroad this whole year.

Yes there will be an app and ‘passports’ perhaps, but I really question how much this will all be enforced seeing as the effort this year has been consistently pathetic. People who don’t want to get vaccinated will probably not be able to travel abroad, but I think that’s fair enough

[trulydelicious]

@Gigheimer

anyone with any PR experience can see it coming like a train and we need to question things BEFORE they happen

The PR may start soon. They are planning to ask instagramers and religious leaders to push Covid vaccines to people who trust them to improve uptake. Looks like emotional blackmail and it's worrying also as it's bound to muddy the waters even more.

//www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/29/nhs-enlist-sensible-celebrities-coronavirus-vaccine-take-up

[RoseAndRose]

That's the only bit that worries me - forcing everyone onto the app

[Gigheimer]

Wimto I actually agree with you, my small sliver of hope is that they are so incompetent it isn’t manageable.

But do we really think that being ok with relying on an incompetent governance not to destroy trust is a good thing? Seems an oxymoron to me.

And travel is different, if I can’t fly to certain countries, ok. I actually do and have had every vaccine going including hepatitis due to my lovely rapist, but that’s my choice.

Going food shopping and being able to work to feed my family isn’t.

[Flapjak]

Vaccination should always be a choice as there are always rare life changing risks that can occur. To all those that are saying it should be compulsory, what if your risk of dying of covid (for most healthy people under 60) was a lot lower than the risk of say for example your child or yourself developing a lifelong autoimmune disease? Still a tiny risk maybe 1 in 10000 but statistically more likely than dying of covid?

[trulydelicious]

@Cinderellashoes

My sons nursery ask for proof of immunisations for safety. What’s the difference? It’s a vaccine not a microchip

Since you are bringing up microchips and nonsensical theories, a microchip would be reversible, a vaccine isn't.

[WhyNotMeThough]

I think what's dangerous is the predictable armchair experts, with google at their fingertips, throwing out "facts" based on their "research ".
Go talk to medical professionals if you have doubts. Ask questions. Wait and see. It isn't compulsory but as PP's have said, with choice comes consequences.
This is no different to the parents who convinced other parents to avoid the MMR in the late 90's's early 00's based on incorrect information, because they believed it. It's dangerous.
Don't have a vaccine you're not comfortable with. Until we have the vaccine, all of our liberties are hindered. Those of us willing to take a personal decision to have a vaccine will do so. Then the pandemic will at least diminish. Do you expect to follow suit at that point based on everyone else taking a vaccine you say you won't take and be released from this year long lockdown? Do you want to take advantage of the vaccine in this way? Are you complying with the rules? Do you disagree with lockdowns and restrictions in the first place? If you don't disagree, why? If you had a business that had been closed for much of the year would you allow people in who could shut you down again?
Everyone must make their own decisions.
I have Covid right now.
I wouldn't wish it on anyone and I'd rather have had a vaccine than be doubled up at the bottom of the stairs fighting to breathe.
Have the vaccine or don't, but make your choice in the full knowledge of the consequences, not just to yourself but to others.

[MadameBlobby]

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but it’s a criminal offence to have someone in your home by consent. It’s a criminal offence for me to travel outside the immediate local authority I live in. Many perfectly lawful and profitable businesses have been forced closed by the government. Even in ones that are open you can’t meet with a group of people of your choice.

These are civil liberties that won’t be returned unless people stop being selfish twats and have the vaccine. It’s a lot less of an infringement on freedom than what we have now.

[LizzieMacQueen]

HRTFT but I'm someone who often leaves my mobile at home / lets it run out of charge.

Depending on a QR code to enter premises is extremely restricting.

[MadameBlobby]

@ScottishStottie

Your free choice is there. As is the free choice of various businesses that may want to safeguard their staff and customers by restricting access to people who have not had the vaccine. Simple as that.

If you dont want the vaccine your access to some areas may be limited, but that is your choice, and choices have consequences. Pros amd cons on both sides that each person can weigh up.

Absolutely this

I’ve said all along people won’t be pinned down to have it but it will be de facto compulsory to access public services and perhaps many private establishments as well. No problem with it here. I’m not sure what people think a viable alternative is? Years more incredibly damaging restrictions and high numbers of Covid deaths until an arbitrary time on the calendar has passed?

[feelingverylazytoday]

@TrustTheGeneGenie

So are we going to stop under 50s travelling, accessing healthcare, going in shops then for over a year? And under 18s until they turn 18 and get it?

Or does that sound absolutely insane?

It won't be for over a year. The aim is to immunise everyone in the next few months. They're having s practice run with the the flu vaccine now. It should be acheivable.
And no it doesn't sound insane at all. This virus has already claimed nearly 1,500,000 lives globally. What did you think was going to happen ? Normal life was just to resume without people being vaccinated?

[Trousersareoverrated]

Well we all are living our lives in lockdown just now. Having the vaccine will allow us the freedom to get out of that lockdown- if you want to stay in lockdown then go for it.

[Pyewhacket]

@Tootsietoot

You are talking scaremongering bollocks.

This, totally. Get a grip.

[PhilCornwall1]

@sixswans

Businesses having the right to refuse entry is their free choice, just like having or not having the vaccine is yours

When it impacts them making money, which so many need right now, not many will be refusing entry.

[pastandpresent]

Why everything you say sounds so similar to something I read somewhere else, OP. It started to get really boring. If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't. No one is forcing you. It's your free choice. As well as other business etc to have choice to prevent people to enter without being vaccinated.
I don't think vaccine is 100% safe as for any meds, and I still want to learn the risks etc, but I just think it outweighs not having one.

[Gigheimer]

If you are bored Past move on, have the vaccine, don’t debate a move to the nanny state. There will be a thread somewhere about parking I’m sure.

You still have that choice.

[JinglingHellsBells]

I never said forced, I said no one is getting pinned down.

@Gigheimer You asked a question. The answer is simply NO- it's not mandatory.

Can't be bothered to read the rest of your thread as it's nonsense and you are winding people up based on fiction.

[TibetanTerrier]

@WanderingMilly
Likewise the 1976 swine 'flu jab also created problems for many, many receivers.

450 people to be precise, out of 45 million Americans vaccinated. And research has since shown that we are far more likely to develop Guillain-Barre from catching the infection itself than from the vaccine. Also the vaccine was using an attenuated live virus, which the Covid-19 vaccines do not. As for people being reported having heart attacks, it has since been shown that these were all elderly people and the number of heart attacks was normal and to be expected for that age group. The hysteria of the press and the ineptitude of the Ford administration were largely responsible for the rollout of the vaccine being a fiasco.

[Walkaround]

It’s nothing to do with a nanny state if a privately run organisation tells you they don’t want your business unless you’ve had a vaccine. That’s called freedom of choice.

[HopeMumsnet]

Hi all,
We have moved this to the Coronavirus topic. We've had a couple of reports suggesting that this is scaremongering but we can see that Liberty has made a statement re coercion so we feel it is a valid topic of discussion.