So the vaccine is going to be compulsory then?

[Gigheimer]

There was a thread ages ago about the fact people were being tin foil hat about a vaccine being compulsory.

Latest news out they are considering “vaccine passports”, which lets face it, on our news cycle throughout this entire thing it’s been ... prepare them gently with maybes, odd leak here or there, test the messaging, oh look the guesses were right

So no one is going to pin anyone down and spear them, but it’s basically the same thing. If you can’t enter a shop/leisure/work place domestically without a vaccine. It’s fucking compulsory.

Where did free will go? Where did vaccine uptake because we have trust go? I’m not anti-vaccine, had them all, even TB. But this isn’t on I terms of civil liberties. Does no one else feel concern at a general use of this crisis into nanny state?

[Headspinner2020]

I wouldn't class myself as a conspiracist and I'm not an anti- Vaxer, but - I'm definitely feeling something isn't right here.

I was recently at a London A&E. Literally empty. I asked the nurse how busy they were in the Hospitals with Covid patients. She said there are currently only 9!!

Something is fishy here.

[Schummakker]

This isn’t scaremongering for gods sake 🙄

When OP says ‘coerced’ it’s because it’s looking like without a vaccine living a normal life with usual liberties may become complicated, such as travel and employment.

[ScottishStottie]

Yes im very interested to know what alternative people who dont want the vaccine but want to be able to integrate fully in public areas suggest.

[MRC20]

23:14Tootsietoot

No they categorically said today it wouldn't be mandatory. Some venues might choose to not let people in in a less they can prove it has a vaccine that is very different from forcing everyone to have a vaccine.

Err no.
The point was if EVERY venue requires this passport (and there's nothing to stop that happening. It may even affect organisations insurance if they don't require it) then it has in effect become mandatory (unless you want to stay at home for the rest of your life).

[glassshoes]

Your free choice. Entirely appropriate however that choice comes with consequences needed to protect those who are most vulnerable to the virus, and who may not be able to be vaccinated.

[AldiAisleofCrap]

@MRC20 unless you want to stay at home for the rest of your life). but you are fine with ECV people who can’t be vaccinated and have already spent months of life at home, not being able to leave their home even though a vaccine exists?

[AntiHop]

@Enrosadira

Would you consider not being allowed to carry a bottle of liquid on a plane a loss of your liberties too. Or not being able to smoke on a plane? Or board it completely pissed? It is trhe same bloody arguments about everything: about seatbelts, helmets, smoking in the car, smacking your child. Grow up!
We are talking a vaccine here not a chip under your skin.
Imagine (and I am sure there where) people complaining about having to get a vaccine agains smallpox.

Perfectly put.

[Gigheimer]

Gancanny fag packet maths on available data. 8000 claims for vaccine damage related compensation (granted adults and kids) in 35 years.

That’s 228 per year, that claimed, not that were injured and didn’t claim, could be higher.

Number of kids affected by Covid this year (on available data) 71. Only 5 of which died, all 71 had significant health issues beforehand.

Not saying those 5 were not absolute devastation for the families. But 5 Vs 228 would say risk of damage would be greater than risk of covid.

[CunnyLingus]

Proof please, or I don’t believe you.

[Ophelia2020]

I agree with you op it's very concerning.

[sammyjoanne]

I would imagine there would be a travel pasport of sorts. Some specific countries might not let you in full stop. if around 70% of us gets vaccinated and its a long term vaccine, then it will eventually die out as the virus doesnt have enough hosts to go around, thus creating herd immunity with the vaccine.

[Gancanny]

then it has in effect become mandatory (unless you want to stay at home for the rest of your life).

A bit like how clinically vulnerable people with compromised immune systems have had to stay at home for months on end and who, even in non-covid times, have to avoid public activities as much as possible due to the risk of infections? It would be a nice change for the anti-vaxxers and the "vaccine hesitant" anti-vaxxers by another name to be the ones stuck at home instead.

[Ophelia2020]

Wearing a seatbelt or smoking on planes is in no way comparable to being coerced into medical treatment you don't consent to.

[ScottishStottie]

No one is forcing anyone to have a vaccine. But its incredibly short sighted, selfish and a bit stupid to think that you can opt out of a vaccine AND return to your normal life.

It being an either or situation isnt that unreasonable. And still a choice.

[Gancanny]

Number of kids affected by Covid this year (on available data) 71. Only 5 of which died, all 71 had significant health issues beforehand.

More than 71 children have contracted covid.

When a child has covid they not only have the risk of complications - and that risk goes up the more a disease is in circulation because more disease vectors means more change of catching it, more change you will be the 1 in whatever who has complications or dies, and more change of the virus mutating - there are also the financial and educational side effects of their parents missing 2+ weeks of work and the child missing 2+ weeks of school. If this happens multiple times a year then its going to have a detrimental effect on both their development and opportunities afforded to them.

In addition to this, children can pass the disease to vulnerable groups and to their parents or siblings (who may also be vulnerable) and so it spreads. As I mentioned above, uncontrolled spread increases the risks. The effects of covid in children, particularly long term effects, aren't yet fully understood.

Vaccines however have a wealth of associated research that overwhelming supports the statement that vaccines are safe and any risks are minimal. I'd rather take the vaccine.

[JassyRadlett]

The thing is, OP, a lot of the ‘freedoms’ you mentioned are currently partially or fully unavailable to all or most due to Covid. That will continue until the disease is brought under control. If not enough people are vaccinated, that is likely to take a lot longer.

So it really comes down to - does everyone have access to these businesses and services curtailed, or are they curtailed only for those who have chosen to present an ongoing increased risk of disease transmission? (I have said ‘chosen’ intentionally to exclude any who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons from this group, and I hope and expect there would be exemptions for them in any such system.)

I would like to see my family again. They live in a country with very low Covid and very strict entry rules. I am unlikely to be able to go there until a vaccine programme is well established here. Some of my family are very elderly and ill. If a vaccine certificate allows me to go there, in a similar way to the yellow fever certificate that allowed me into parts of Africa, then yes, I want that proof of vaccination.

And I don’t blame businesses who have been absolutely clobbered by this disease and the restrictions on them to choose normal operation, but only for the vaccinated, over continued restrictions and financial ruin.

And yes, once it is trialled and approved for children, I will be happy for my children to have it, in the same way as I’m very happy for my boys to have the rubella vaccine. The potential for rubella to cause them any harm is vanishingly small - much lower than Covid. However, the risk of vaccine damage is also vanishingly small, and the societal benefits of people being vaccinated against rubella are high.

[Gigheimer]

Health choices are normally made on accurate, robust data. This simply isn’t.

I am a fully functioning member of society, never broken a law, taken all my vaccinations, played by every rule. But we have law to protect us as well. I genuinely don’t feel safe with governance by coercion.

Either come out and say you will make it impossible to live life without a vaccine. Or don’t. It’s sinister, sorry it is.

And this isn’t just any other vaccine, it’s a technology not used before on a mass scale. And do you know what, it might be amazing, it might be our saviour. It might be the future of medicine. Various medical journals have looked at its “promise”.

But it is just promise, it’s completely new tech for delivery and personally I think as with anything you should have free bodily will to make that choice. It’s not like we’ve never got anything wrong before is it? Thalidomide?

One in every 55,000 swine flu vaccines (given to over 6 million people) caused permanent narcolepsy in 2010. Don’t believe me go check the narcolepsy U.K. charity. That had been given EU approval on rushed testing too and that was on old tech.

Now my research may lead me to choose to have the jab, but it should always and above all be my choice on something like this.

[Unsure33]

@Headspinner2020

See I have an alternative truth. We know a business that rents rooms in bristol and a nurse had signed up. But she changed her mind because Bristol is extremely busy with covid patients and she was actually scared.

OP .The definition of compulsory does not fit the scenario you are describing.

And amongst all the loony conspiracy theories being banded about , no one has given a single explanation of why a Tory government , or even European governments , would deliberately ruin an economy.

It’s utter madness to say something fishy is going on.

Sorry if I sound angry at your pathetic reasoning . But I have lost family to this virus. So actually I am not apologetic.

[Unsure33]

@Gigheimer

Thalidomide was Not a vaccine

[Unsure33]

@Gigheimer

You have a choice . Don’t have the vaccine . End of.

[Gigheimer]

Sorry Unsure but don’t conflate me with others. I never said Covid wasn’t real, I never said hospitals were empty and I have clearly explained why exactly it’s compulsory by any other name.

I have lost a friend to Covid and my father has had it.

I still maintain there is a limit when it comes to medical autonomy.

[Gigheimer]

Oh well now you’ve said end of. That makes it all ok

[Alternista]

Oh, you’re an anti vaxxer. I wish you’d have been honest at the start, then I wouldn’t have bothered engaging with you. Still, it’s been heartening to see most people calling out your bull. Maybe we’ll get through this after all.

[ScottishStottie]

Well i would like my life to get back to normal. So im having a vaccone as soon as i can. I dont really give a shit if you do or not. But i do sincerely hope that every single business that can, puts in vaccine passport restrictions.