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BBC1 news tonight

228 replies

Pomegranatespompom · 30/11/2020 22:56

Did anyone watch the poverty and covid report? It was incredibly sad, people living in absolutely awful circumstances. There was no SD/mask wearing,. An utterly depressing watch.

OP posts:
Pomegranatespompom · 01/12/2020 23:20

@thebiggestmoose donating to a food bank is better than doing nothing.
Yes to raising with mps, yes to not voting Tory, yes Labour need to get their ship in order..
Why do you and others feel the need to be negative to people who are trying to help.
It’s pretty crap behaviour. I can’t see any pearly clutching, just people genuinely wanting to help. Why do you feel the need to be rude ? Would you prefer people not to do anything ?

OP posts:
SansaSnark · 01/12/2020 23:36

I don't think it's lockdown alone.

I mean, I'm sure lockdown has made things worse for some people.

But there were people starving in this country before lockdown, and that's fucking disgusting too.

The people to blame are the Tories and their austerity politics.

It didn't have to be this way.

thebiggestmoose · 01/12/2020 23:37

[quote Pomegranatespompom]@thebiggestmoose donating to a food bank is better than doing nothing.
Yes to raising with mps, yes to not voting Tory, yes Labour need to get their ship in order..
Why do you and others feel the need to be negative to people who are trying to help.
It’s pretty crap behaviour. I can’t see any pearly clutching, just people genuinely wanting to help. Why do you feel the need to be rude ? Would you prefer people not to do anything ?[/quote]
I'm not being rude I live among the people who have no money and run out of food and I find the middle class MNs horror at how actual poor people actually live nauseating. If that bothers you I don't actually care. Go and chuck a can of beans to the food bank and your conscience will be clear
Seriously you have no fucking idea how a lot of people live if this comes as a surprise to you

Butterflytown · 01/12/2020 23:57

@Akire it was Burnley in Lancashire. It’s a pretty deprived town, like a lot of Northern former industrial mill towns and this year will have tipped even more into poverty.

Pomegranatespompom · 02/12/2020 00:12

I don’t see how your response is helpful to anyone @thebiggestmoose perhaps being needlessly rude others obviously gives you superiority or satisfaction. It’s unnecessary.

OP posts:
thebiggestmoose · 02/12/2020 00:17

@Pomegranatespompom

I don’t see how your response is helpful to anyone *@thebiggestmoose* perhaps being needlessly rude others obviously gives you superiority or satisfaction. It’s unnecessary.
No problem, continue in your smug and patronising way, after all you know better than the actual people using food banks. How lucky the plebs are to have people like yourself caring so deeply for their plight
Pomegranatespompom · 02/12/2020 00:27

I’m really not sure why you are so angry with me. Several posters on this thread were not aware how difficult life is for some and want to help.
I’ll help in any way I can. I’m really not smug or patronising and I have not said anywhere that I know better than anyone.

OP posts:
PolkadotGiraffe · 02/12/2020 00:41

I haven't yet RTFT but I have to say I agree with @TheDailyCarbuncle. Just like with Brexit people are reacting emotionally and believing tabloid headlines rather than looking at facts.

Initially there was a good case for lockdown: to stop the virus becoming endemic in the UK population until we knew what we were dealing with. In Jan and Feb many of us asked MPs to do this. We are an island, we saw what was happening in China then Italy and Spain. But Boris went off on holiday and our requests were ignored until it was too late. Friends accused me of "scaremongering".

At that point our fate was pretty much sealed, and it has been nothing but mismanagement since. Anyone familiar with Boris' professional history should not be surprised frankly.

I found this video extremely upsetting, and can really empathise as I've been that poor before, with no food, no electricity, no heating etc. And nobody cared. I am now very lucky personally but it's totally unacceptable for people in a developed country to be living like that and lockdowns are causing more damage now than they are preventing. It's hard to see how anybody could deny it (the Government's claim it was "impossible" to produce a cost/ benefit analysis of this even though that is meant to be a requirement for Government policy changes speaks volumes). The worst recession in 300 years and that's before we add on all of the Brexit job losses, price hikes, GBP devaluation and supply chain issues. Yes Covid is horrible but believe me, things are going to get very ugly.

There are no good choices left at this point but to blindly follow the Government's rhetoric without considering wider impacts is illogical and will do much harm for many years to come. And I say all of this as someone suffering from long Covid who has been unwell since April.

If anybody is interested in factual and staristical analysis the FT has some really good articles and the comments section is full of intelligent discussion on these topics.

This particular comment from September (not mine) really struck me, if anybody is interested in weighing up the human and economic costs of lockdowns:

"Those who defend such [lockdown] measures need to understand the facts and statistics and clearly don't, because i suspect they are retired and have a pension, work in the public sector so don't need to worry about losing their job, or are independently wealthy.

So lets be clear who is dying, 50% of deaths have happened in care homes, 95% of deaths are those over 60, mostly with underlying health issues, the rest below 60 have underlying health issues.

Children and healthy adults don't die from COVID, the one case that does, is one in a million.

The vulnerable groups should undoubtedly be given the protection and means to shield, but not at the cost of the 99.99% of the population this doesn't apply to. As the death rate calculated in the Economist is 0.01%....

...So, for this tiny fraction of the world population, which yes could be a few million people dying, which nobody wants, is killing or is going to kill even more people with the actions the UK and other governments are taking. Facts:

  • UNICEF - 150m children have been plunged in to poverty due to COVID restrictions, which will either kill them or reduce their life expectancy. In India it is being reported that 300k of children will die of malnutrition because of Lockdown.
  • In the UK the FT and BMJ, have reported that 40k to 50k of people will die because they haven't received treatment or diagnosis for cancer, heart and other life threatening diseases, with a further 100k over the next few years. I personally have two friends who have their cancer treatment on hold in their late 30's, who are scared to death.
  • The closure of education destroys the life chances of children and young adults, which leads to reduction in life chances and life expectancy.
  • Woman and Children are being recorded in record numbers being abused, mental health and drugs services cannot cope with the influx. That is first hand from a Doctor i personally know and a councilor in the NHS.
  • Industries have been decimated, leading to long term unemployment, again reducing life expectancy and pushing people in to poverty.

If you cannot see that the cure we are applying is worse than the actual disease itself, you must be completely selfish, stupid and blind.

What ever is left of economies after this, be sure there will be no additional health care spending, as there wont be enough taxes to pay for it. Its basic economics, that if we don't get the economy moving, there will be no spending, no taxation and a reduced level of health care, again reducing life expectancy and treatment for people. Its not rocket science, its logic.

So in short, it is plainly clear to anyone with half a brain, that we are going to kill more people by our actions of lockdowns and restrictions, than the virus ever will, as the above points i have made will be repeated the world over.

We take decisions everyday in healthcare systems around the world, that an older life is worth less than a younger life, its a fact, because we have limited resources, and a child has their whole life ahead of them, i know its sounds cold, but there is a cost benefit analysis that goes on, and it is common sense to prolong someones life at 15 or 20, compared to someone at 85 and we make that decision everyday.

I am not saying that we should let vulnerable people die, i am saying that they have to take responsibility for shielding themselves, and as a society we should give them the support needed, but not at the cost of killing people with longer lives to lead, and destroying their life chances.

Everyone else should be allowed to get on with life, with basic restrictions in place to help, but to more normalized patterns, so that we can get the world moving and save further despair to the 99.99% of people who COVID wont touch, other than a few days in bed in the overwhelming majority of cases, with some 80% of people being completely symptom free.

So it is not we who are selfish that want to get on with life now, we have done our bit, we have done more than enough. It is the turn of the vulnerable, their the ones who are being selfish, say your not to the children the world over your killing and plunging in to poverty.

Finally, the government are completely tone deaf, inept, incompetent and lots more, with a media that should be ashamed of itself for its lies, reckless reporting and facts that have been skewed.

Boris, Matt, Pritti, Grant etc should be ashamed of themselves for how badly they have performed, with no strategy and zero integrity. Matt Hancock being the biggest comedy act. BJ really has surrounded himself with the inept team to ever form a government."

PolkadotGiraffe · 02/12/2020 00:44

@howitstarted

The crazy thing is that the people in Burnley, where this was filmed and which is one of the poorest areas in the country, voted in a Tory MP last December.
And for Brexit, I believe? Which will make their situation SO much worse in 2021.
PolkadotGiraffe · 02/12/2020 00:46

@TheEndisCummings

God that made me cry. Awful awful lives. Made worse by COVID, yes, but this is what this country is, a sickeningly unequal shitshow, where the Chancellor of the Exchequer has a personal family wealth of millions and millions. This goes far beyond the current crisis. Horrific. And then to read these poor fuckers voted Tory. Everything is so screwed up.
More than that. His wife is an heiress to one of the biggest fortunes in India. They are billionnaires. And he is also in trouble for breaking the Ministerial Code and not declaring their financial interests in the official register as is required (which give him huge conflicts of interest when deciding UK tax and spending policy). How any "normal people" think such people have their best interests at heart is beyond me.
RhubarbTea · 02/12/2020 00:48

@Akire

It did stand out all of them were old, sick or disabled. Or with live tragedies that would make them unemployable or with mental ill heath. All of which can do nothing to improve their condition. We have had 10 y of austerity so least they can’t take much more of this group.

Universal credit went up £20 a week for new claimants for covid for those new To the lows of the benefit system. Yet those or it before or older legacy benefits didn’t get increased a penny. If you had suddenly pay for PPE for carers or more for food and deliveries because you wouldn’t go out tough carry on.

@Akire that isn't correct, as far as I understand legacy benefits like Tax Credits etc also benefited from the increase. At least, I claim tax credits and mine went up by around that amount.

The gov haven't committed to continuing the £20 pw increase beyond April through, they have hedged and say they will announce their decision in January, forcing poorer families to get through Christmas with no idea of how things will look for them financially in the spring and whether they're going to be really in the shit or just moderately in the shit.

Pomegranatespompom · 02/12/2020 00:51

Agree this government is vile, corrupt and has no interest in helping anyone.

OP posts:
SheepandCow · 02/12/2020 00:56

@SansaSnark

I don't think it's lockdown alone.

I mean, I'm sure lockdown has made things worse for some people.

But there were people starving in this country before lockdown, and that's fucking disgusting too.

The people to blame are the Tories and their austerity politics.

It didn't have to be this way.

This
SheepandCow · 02/12/2020 01:01

It's not lockdown full stop. It's Covid - and failure to contain it.

It's been widely reported that Covid deaths have been disproportionately amongst poorer people. One big reason being the strong link between poverty and poor health.

It's perhaps, why rich right wingers were and are so against containment measures.

They put short-term greed before the lives and health and jobs of poorer people. A stupid approach seeing as it's also affected the longer term economy. Which was the obvious consequence.

SheepandCow · 02/12/2020 01:04

And it's not just the conservatives. George Osborne's austerity did indeed do terrible things, but it largely started with Blair's war on disability. Right to buy is also to blame. (something the Brown and Blair governments enthusiastically continued).

PolkadotGiraffe · 02/12/2020 01:22

@SheepandCow

And it's not just the conservatives. George Osborne's austerity did indeed do terrible things, but it largely started with Blair's war on disability. Right to buy is also to blame. (something the Brown and Blair governments enthusiastically continued).
All of that will pale into insigificance though, in comparison to the impact of Covid + Brexit.

The financial crisis as a whole caused a 4% reduction in GDP. In just three months of lockdown in 2020, it fell by 11%. And the damage is still ongoing, then in the new year we have happy Brexit day! At the moment the (insufficient) support through furlough etc is masking some of the issues but these chickens are all on their way home to roost.

SheepandCow · 02/12/2020 01:26

With a gloomy January predicted, I rather hope the bird conspiracy is true. I think turning into a bird is a good way out - even if it requires a weekly battery change.

BooksAreNotEssentialInWales · 02/12/2020 01:40

@PolkadotGiraffe

I haven't yet RTFT but I have to say I agree with *@TheDailyCarbuncle*. Just like with Brexit people are reacting emotionally and believing tabloid headlines rather than looking at facts.

Initially there was a good case for lockdown: to stop the virus becoming endemic in the UK population until we knew what we were dealing with. In Jan and Feb many of us asked MPs to do this. We are an island, we saw what was happening in China then Italy and Spain. But Boris went off on holiday and our requests were ignored until it was too late. Friends accused me of "scaremongering".

At that point our fate was pretty much sealed, and it has been nothing but mismanagement since. Anyone familiar with Boris' professional history should not be surprised frankly.

I found this video extremely upsetting, and can really empathise as I've been that poor before, with no food, no electricity, no heating etc. And nobody cared. I am now very lucky personally but it's totally unacceptable for people in a developed country to be living like that and lockdowns are causing more damage now than they are preventing. It's hard to see how anybody could deny it (the Government's claim it was "impossible" to produce a cost/ benefit analysis of this even though that is meant to be a requirement for Government policy changes speaks volumes). The worst recession in 300 years and that's before we add on all of the Brexit job losses, price hikes, GBP devaluation and supply chain issues. Yes Covid is horrible but believe me, things are going to get very ugly.

There are no good choices left at this point but to blindly follow the Government's rhetoric without considering wider impacts is illogical and will do much harm for many years to come. And I say all of this as someone suffering from long Covid who has been unwell since April.

If anybody is interested in factual and staristical analysis the FT has some really good articles and the comments section is full of intelligent discussion on these topics.

This particular comment from September (not mine) really struck me, if anybody is interested in weighing up the human and economic costs of lockdowns:

"Those who defend such [lockdown] measures need to understand the facts and statistics and clearly don't, because i suspect they are retired and have a pension, work in the public sector so don't need to worry about losing their job, or are independently wealthy.

So lets be clear who is dying, 50% of deaths have happened in care homes, 95% of deaths are those over 60, mostly with underlying health issues, the rest below 60 have underlying health issues.

Children and healthy adults don't die from COVID, the one case that does, is one in a million.

The vulnerable groups should undoubtedly be given the protection and means to shield, but not at the cost of the 99.99% of the population this doesn't apply to. As the death rate calculated in the Economist is 0.01%....

...So, for this tiny fraction of the world population, which yes could be a few million people dying, which nobody wants, is killing or is going to kill even more people with the actions the UK and other governments are taking. Facts:

  • UNICEF - 150m children have been plunged in to poverty due to COVID restrictions, which will either kill them or reduce their life expectancy. In India it is being reported that 300k of children will die of malnutrition because of Lockdown.
  • In the UK the FT and BMJ, have reported that 40k to 50k of people will die because they haven't received treatment or diagnosis for cancer, heart and other life threatening diseases, with a further 100k over the next few years. I personally have two friends who have their cancer treatment on hold in their late 30's, who are scared to death.
  • The closure of education destroys the life chances of children and young adults, which leads to reduction in life chances and life expectancy.
  • Woman and Children are being recorded in record numbers being abused, mental health and drugs services cannot cope with the influx. That is first hand from a Doctor i personally know and a councilor in the NHS.
  • Industries have been decimated, leading to long term unemployment, again reducing life expectancy and pushing people in to poverty.

If you cannot see that the cure we are applying is worse than the actual disease itself, you must be completely selfish, stupid and blind.

What ever is left of economies after this, be sure there will be no additional health care spending, as there wont be enough taxes to pay for it. Its basic economics, that if we don't get the economy moving, there will be no spending, no taxation and a reduced level of health care, again reducing life expectancy and treatment for people. Its not rocket science, its logic.

So in short, it is plainly clear to anyone with half a brain, that we are going to kill more people by our actions of lockdowns and restrictions, than the virus ever will, as the above points i have made will be repeated the world over.

We take decisions everyday in healthcare systems around the world, that an older life is worth less than a younger life, its a fact, because we have limited resources, and a child has their whole life ahead of them, i know its sounds cold, but there is a cost benefit analysis that goes on, and it is common sense to prolong someones life at 15 or 20, compared to someone at 85 and we make that decision everyday.

I am not saying that we should let vulnerable people die, i am saying that they have to take responsibility for shielding themselves, and as a society we should give them the support needed, but not at the cost of killing people with longer lives to lead, and destroying their life chances.

Everyone else should be allowed to get on with life, with basic restrictions in place to help, but to more normalized patterns, so that we can get the world moving and save further despair to the 99.99% of people who COVID wont touch, other than a few days in bed in the overwhelming majority of cases, with some 80% of people being completely symptom free.

So it is not we who are selfish that want to get on with life now, we have done our bit, we have done more than enough. It is the turn of the vulnerable, their the ones who are being selfish, say your not to the children the world over your killing and plunging in to poverty.

Finally, the government are completely tone deaf, inept, incompetent and lots more, with a media that should be ashamed of itself for its lies, reckless reporting and facts that have been skewed.

Boris, Matt, Pritti, Grant etc should be ashamed of themselves for how badly they have performed, with no strategy and zero integrity. Matt Hancock being the biggest comedy act. BJ really has surrounded himself with the inept team to ever form a government."

I completely agree with all this. It’s so disingenuous to say Covid not lockdown. Lockdown is the chosen response to Covid and there are other options. We know far more about the virus than in March yet still lockdown more, harder, faster is the only option on the political table. We know where the virus spreads and need to focus attention far more in hospitals and care homes. People who are symptomatic or isolating need full support to stay home. People who are vulnerable and wish to stay home should be supported to do so. Any measures should be designed to have maximum benefit for minimum costs to our freedom. Lockdown is disastrous and combined with Brexit has the potential to ruin us particularly while we’re run by this bunch of short term idiots. In Wales where I live the response has been almost identical so I don’t think Labour would have been great either.

This is all entirely predictable and yet I’m accused of all sorts. I’m left wing pro vaccine, believe in Covid but I also believe in balance, personal choice, freedom and responsibility backed by a strong safety net. We’re left with a destroyed economy, rights abandoned and the gap between rich and poor growing ever wider. A complete failure on every level.

PolkadotGiraffe · 02/12/2020 01:48

@BooksAreNotEssentialInWales indeed. We have one of the highest excess death rates per capita in the entire developed world and what is projected to be the worst economic crash of any developed country, with the slowest recovery. The worst of all worlds. It took a special kind if "genius" in incompetence to get us to where we are.

WineAndHobnobs · 02/12/2020 01:58

Can someone please explain to me (foreigner) why poor people in the UK are not looked after financially? Can they get benefits? Is it just not enough money? I am trying to understand.

Sobeyondthehills · 02/12/2020 02:16

@WineAndHobnobs

There were roughly 3 million people who were promised they were not going to be left behind, unable to access any of the grants during the first lockdown. By the time the arguing was done, most realised that to get universal credit was a 5 week wait, so for a lot of people that was 2 months without money and that is not considering any time delays that happened, the amount you get to live on for a single person that is unemployed is roughly £70 a week, you might get lucky and be able to claim housing benefit. but that might not cover all your rent, with that £70 (assuming you don't have to pay your rent) you have to pay gas, electric, council tax, food, water, internet. As a basic, you can cancel you tv licence, but you might be able to cancel your mobile phone contract,

Just based on what I pay out a week, its not enough to live off and if you are on a mortgage there is some help but for people not familar with the system its tough to find.

Lineofconcepcion · 02/12/2020 02:28

No disrespect to anyone on here is intended but this isn't new. It became pretty bad around 2012 onwards with increasing benefit caps, bedroom tax and then universal credit. A lot of people seem to have their heads in the sand and all covid has done is polarise the differences. The report on child poverty by I think it was the UN a few years ago said there were real concerns that child poverty is increasing with no coherent strategy for tackling it. The Tories have ignored every report.

Brexit will exacerbate the financial issues for the poor even more. I was a 'do gooder lefty lawyer', legal aid, in social welfare law and homelessness has quadrupled or more since 2012 and my client group are in even more dire straits.

Food banks treat the symptoms but the disease remains.

Sobeyondthehills · 02/12/2020 02:32

The Tories have ignored every report.

In their defence, they didn't ignore it, they changed what the definition of child poverty was

Lineofconcepcion · 02/12/2020 02:33

Just to add, it would be helpful to have a government that knows what it's doing.

MercyBooth · 02/12/2020 03:01

probably living in council homes which they don’t risk losing

Hmm I live in social housing. Im also child free by choice. Nice dig at tenants there. In this latest lockdown the reason some businesses were closed was to enable children to keep going to school. I dont have a problem with that................except when im

then othered for living in a council property.

@TheDailyCarbuncle Totally agree. I saw a picture of an A blackboard on Twitter a while ago. Written on it in chalk was "Lockdown is the middle class staying at home while working class people bring them things"