Government denial over schools issues will cause deaths this Christmas

[noblegiraffe]

I just can't get my head around how utterly crazy the government Christmas policy is.

Secondary school kids are the most infected subset of the population with it now estimated that more than 1 in 50 of them are positive. As they are children, most of them will never be tested as they either are asymptomatic, or will display different symptoms to the main three that are required to trigger a test (councils are overruling this in some parts of England and asking parents to use a more sensible list of symptoms).

Schools mostly break up on 18th December, 5 days before the Christmas relaxation period begins and people start taking advantage of this to mix with other households indoors, in poorly ventilated small rooms, which as scientists warn, is a terrible idea. twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1331931594400149506?s=21

Closing schools a week earlier (or moving online) would give 2 weeks out of school before Christmas day, which would reduce the infection rate in school children significantly (we saw a dip in the infection rate just in one week over half term) and make it safer for them to mix with other households, particularly if people took advantage of those two weeks to significantly reduce their contacts and other risks.

Some schools took it upon themselves to protect their own communities by changing the term dates to close a week earlier. The DfE has overruled this and forced them to stay open.
schoolsweek.co.uk/overruled-dfes-sweeping-coronavirus-powers-force-trust-into-early-christmas-holiday-u-turn/

Because of the tier system, if families don't get together at Christmas during the relaxation period, when their children pose a much higher risk, they will not be able to see their families properly for Christmas at all. Essentially Christmas is being funnelled into a time period which is insanely risky due to it coming shortly after children mixing freely in unsafe schools with significant numbers of undiscovered infections.

I know the DfE have been reading this board. I understand why you want schools open, but lying to people about the risks as you have is dangerous and immoral. Transparency is needed so that people can make their own informed risk assessments, not propaganda about 'safe schools' and 'saving Christmas'.

This narrative of ‘personal responsibility’ is effectively abdicating the government of any responsibility for the additional deaths that will occur as a direct result of their poor policy decisions and incompetence. They failed to act on schools despite soaring infection rates caused by lack of mitigation measures and they are now encouraging the most infected subset of the population to mix with relatives by relaxing the rules.

I’m seeing it as the government getting their excuses in early.

Might be an explosion of cases in grandparents, that I can more understand.

That is the point of my OP.

Perhaps that’s where we fundamentally disagree. I do think personal choice, rather than responsibility, is key here.

If someone’s grandparents know their teenager grandchildren have been in secondary school, but decide they wish to see them anyway, it isn’t up to me to tell them they shouldn’t. Or Boris.

“Might be an explosion of cases in grandparents, that I can more understand.

That is the point of my OP.“

Which can be prevented by people using some sense and not seeing their grandparents.

And doesn’t explain the people who want to shut schools for two weeks in January as well because they think cases among school children will rise over the holidays.

*teenage grandchildren

My y10 child has Covid, caught at school. He's had four lots of self isolation since Sept. My other year 10 has had 2 lots and now risks catching Covid off his brother.

Cases are rife at both schools. They have written to parents to say children are still being sent in after positive results.

Three in my child's form alone (10%) currently have Covid, this doesn't factor in the scores of other cases that school has had.

Schools are not Covid safe. It is spreading and Govt is gaslighting parents.

It's a postcode lottery too, with those whose schools have few or zero cases wondering why the rest of us are begging for action.
Ten weeks of self isolation. 34 days of not being in school since September, Gcse years and now Covid.

As a family we go nowhere as the risk is high enough at school without us daring to go for haircuts next week or even shopping. Not seen my mother in months. We will not be mixing at Christmas.

I hope the DfE reads this, as we know it is commenting on threads, spreading misinformation.

Schools here in Birmingham are on there knees. Covid is being transmitted in schools and my sporty, cross country running son was knocked off his feet with this.

I agree that the Government denial will cause deaths.

And that's the point that some posters are failing to see. Teachers are having to live with the nagging worry about catching covid at work if we couldn't cope with this, we couldn't function. Our concern here is not for ourselves. It's for the many many people who will be exposed over Xmas, avoidable if the young people they will meet have been reducing contact in the two weeks before.

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But people don't use their common sense even in ordinary times let alone at Christmas. We saw that in crammed bars and shops.

The Government does have a responsibility to manage things.

The issue is the government wanting it all.

They have made the decision for Xmas bubbles and a 5 day - 3 household mixing relaxation.

They have decided schools are safe. They have decided not to fund extra cleaning etc. They have decided they will keep them open whatever. Therefore they have decided to hide the stats which can actually easily be found on the weekly PHE surveillance reports.

They have decided to allow both to happen in some cases 3 days apart. We finish here the 18th and will isolate for a week until we see mum Xmas day.

They could easily finish the term early, cut some time from Easter or summer, move the term dates diehards and return a few days earlier.

People are forgetting it's not that they can't - it's they won't.

As someone unthread said - this is the hill they decided to die on re schools.

[quote StarryFire]@Gobacktothe90s

The benefits to DC of being in school on a full time basis far outweigh any risk to them of COVID.

DC and teens are literally at more risk from flu.[/quote]
Which would be a great argument if they taught themselves!

@Welcometonowhere

Sure. But that week will impact on people. And that impact shouldn’t be minimised.

Sounds as if you're arguing for @noblegiraffe's point, there!

Yes, a week's early closure would have an impact - on the subsequent infection and death rates, post-Christmas.

Teachers who are vulnerable or who (say) live with someone who is vulnerable should not be made to go into school at this time. I also think that should be extended to children who are vulnerable, or who live with someone who is.

But this is a far cry from school closures.

Who will teach their classes, Welcome?

@noblegiraffe

This narrative of ‘personal responsibility’ is effectively abdicating the government of any responsibility for the additional deaths that will occur as a direct result of their poor policy decisions and incompetence. They failed to act on schools despite soaring infection rates caused by lack of mitigation measures and they are now encouraging the most infected subset of the population to mix with relatives by relaxing the rules.

I’m seeing it as the government getting their excuses in early.

Anyone with any sense knows cases will rise after Christmas mixing.

Even people choosing to mix largely know this they just don’t think they will be affected.

Messaging has been clear . Be cautious. U.K. Up to people if they want to listen.

No, I’m not I’m afraid angelina

The impact on older children’s exams, the impact on parents taking time off work, the impact on jobs as a result, the impact on communities with large numbers of unsupervised children in their midst.

It’s not the casual decision some seem to think it is. And these are already children who have missed months.

“All those people” can also choose to stay home and not mix with others at Christmas. Why should my kids carry the can for them. They can't all make that choice though can they. How about the emergency services, do you think they can just shut down, how about supermarket workers, shop will open after Christmas and staff will be at higher risk because of other people mixing at Christmas. That's just a sample, there are lots of others.

who will teach their class

The same arrangements that are made when teachers are unwell, or need time off for compassionate leave, or are pregnant and no arrangements are made for their maternity cover until they are 37 weeks pregnant (yes, HT, I mean you ) or when God forbid there is a sudden death, although this has only happened in a school I worked in once. Awful, just awful, but it does happen.

@Welcometonowhere

No, I’m not I’m afraid angelina

The impact on older children’s exams, the impact on parents taking time off work, the impact on jobs as a result, the impact on communities with large numbers of unsupervised children in their midst.

It’s not the casual decision some seem to think it is. And these are already children who have missed months.

Agree

Not much of a greater impact than death really though, is there?

@CallmeAngelina

Not much of a greater impact than death really though, is there?

So don’t see elderly grandma and reduce risk.

@noblegiraffe

Two of the weeks were waiting for test results so nothing to do with school.

So the test and trace farce. I agree that has been massively disruptive for schools.

Teachers in special schools should be tested on the same schedule as care home workers, and should be on the priority list for vaccines.

I agree as I work in one!

We are lucky our head is sensible and encourages masks and visors, lots of outdoor spaces, has funded extra cleaning of touch points throughout the day, has created more work room and lunch spaces, actually made our lunch break longer, brought kettles for each work room space so we aren't all congregating at the one hot boiler tap.

But the kettles etc are all because without requests or even suggestions our parents donated to the school during lockdown to look after the staff.
We did have 80% (all but shielded) after May half term.

We were high priority with swine flu jab.

That was an interesting day!

I still can't believe the number of people who believe and trot out the line "kids have it mildly" forgetting they may not, their teachers may not etc.

Or take dc out a week early, SI and see her.

How about the emergency services, do you think they can just shut down, how about supermarket workers, shop will open after Christmas and staff will be at higher risk because of other people mixing at Christmas

No they can't just stay home, before Christmas, during Christmas and after Christmas.

Even if they closed schools early, we still couldn't see family as in the real world people can't just shut the door for 2 weeks so they can have a great Christmas.

Absolutely angelina

But given the rarity of deaths in the age groups for both students and teachers, closure isn’t a sensible decision.

Re children passing it on to their grandparents, this has to be a decision families reach themselves. It is not my place to tell adults with full capacity what they should do.