Vaccination order changed?

[bathsh3ba]

Just read that due to the 'instability' of the Pfizer vaccine, it can only be given in hospitals so they will vax NHS staff first and the 80+ and care homes will have to wait for Oxford vax to be approved. Aside from the fact that this is another broken promise and the Oxford vax is possibly less effective, is anyone else suspicious this will just cause another surge in Jan and justify lockdown 3.0 for several months while they supposedly vaccinate the vulnerable?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/27/hospitals-england-told-prepare-early-december-covid-vaccine-rollout-nhs

Do you have a link?

Ahh, thanks. I checked the Guardian but didn't see it.

Now I'm not saying that the governed government have managed the pandemic well but it is hardly their fault that the first vaccine to potentiality be delivered is the one that can't easily be moved around. No point taking a vaccine that can't then be used or to community settings is it.

This instability seems a real downside of the pfizer vaccine

I get the point about changing priorities, but if you cannot get the Pfizer one to the care homes and over 80s, might as well use it where it can be used. Would you make the hospital staff wait just because they weren't top of the list?

@Rosehip10

This instability seems a real downside of the pfizer vaccine

It's a ridiculous design flaw. Unheard of for a vaccine, most are stable for days at room temperature!

But of course, if it can be sent to hospitals may as well start on NHS staff.

We were told the other day that the vaccine was going to get stuck at the main hubs. I did wonder why it had taken them that long to work that out... A few weeks ago they were telling us to prepare to give it in the surgery and we really couldn't see that working.
They tried, but the logistics given you need to split the large orders down so much to spread them out enough to give each surgery only the amount they need for the first few priority groups would have meant the vaccine becoming unstable or wasting a lot of doses.
They are hoping to set up mass vaccination centres to use it that way, but of course they won't be helpful for most of the top priority groups due to accessibility. Can't see them running minibuses from the care homes to a mass centre 50+miles away! Many of the high risk are housebound or not very mobile.

No, I am not suspicious. It’s a pandemic - you have to react to the ever changing circumstances.

Great that NHS staff will be vaccinated so soon- means they will be safer to treat for other conditions, other than Covid, sooner rather than later.

Care homes will hopefully follow as soon as is possible - but transporting the 80 plus in care homes en masse to hospitals needlessly seems reckless, although it could work for care home staff (so that bit I don’t quite understand but I assume it is to do with bubbles/procedures etc).

The rationale thing to do is to start vaccinating ASAP.

If the vaccine can't be moved around surely the care home staff can be vaccinated in hospitals?

Yes, this is my understanding. The Pfizer vaccine has to be deployed and stored under very specific conditions. Once it arrives at the main sites, it will be ready for use and it's not possible to move it to other sites. I've been involved in endless meetings at work about it all week! It's a shame care home residents can't be first, but at least NHS and social care staff can be vaccinated. It's a start and the Oxford vaccine is expected to be approved before the end of the month.

To clarify, I'm not suspicious it's deliberate but that it will be taken advantage of to lock us down again. 'We couldn't vaccinate Granny and you nearly killed her so now you have to be locked down till we do vaccinate her'. But then again I have lost all faith in this government and the opposition and Sage.

Has there been any evidence that the Pfizer vaccine will prevent transmission?

What would you do differently?

Look i actually think the swivel eyed loon running the country should be sacked but hes not in charge of the vaccines stability. He's not said no one can have it, just thats there limitations to overcome so until then NHS first who can get it safely

It’s a bit rubbish (for care homes) but makes perfect sense given the logistical complexities of the Pfizer. It’s coming and it’s coming soon so they need to make as good use as they can of it when it arrives. Any of it getting wasted, given the cost, would be incredibly bad PR but it wouldn’t surprise me.
As soon as AZ is approved I’d hope it is sent to care homes ASAP although it would appear for now it might only be licensed for the “full” dose as not enough info about the “half” dose ... I don’t understand this because clearly if it’s safe in full doses it will be safe in half doses and in half doses it will last longer so why not take a chance?

@IncludeWomenInTheSequel

If the vaccine can't be moved around surely the care home staff can be vaccinated in hospitals?

This would be a major logistical exercise and for many residents, just not safe.

Why would they be looking for an ‘excuse’ to lock us down again?

@Wankerchief no, but he's responsible for locking is down and he seems to rather enjoy it, hence why I am suspicious he will see this as a serendipitous opportunity to flex his power

NHS staff should be vaccinated first, quite rightly. They’ll help to stop the NHS being overwhelmed and ensure people can get care for all illnesses, not just COVID. I’m not sure 96 year old Jeannie in the care home (average stay in a care home is 2.5 years?) should be top priority to receive it first.

This seems completely fair enough and a sensible use of the initial vaccine and availability. One of the ways that the NHS gets overwhelmed is through staff sickness. This will help prevent that and benefit everyone. I’d have thought that care home staff could be vaccinated in hospitals though.

Given that all the restrictions are to save the NHS I actually think it makes sense to get the NHS staff the vaccine that has the highest efficacy. Vulnerable patients with other conditions will be much safer going into hospitals soon if all the staff have had the very efficient vaccine.

Also, once oxford is approved I wonder how many more of Pfizer they will order since oxford is cheaper. So the limited Pfizer doses go to NHS staff instead of care home residents. They get more years of life saved per dose if that makes sense.

@Wankerchief no, but he's responsible for locking is down and he seems to rather enjoy it, hence why I am suspicious he will see this as a serendipitous opportunity to flex his power

No, I don’t agree with this at all. I think he’d much rather protect the economy and has been forced to do the right thing by the scientific advice. Certainly his MPs are going to give him a very hard time about it.

I think his natural instincts are more in line with Trump and Bolsonaro and the other populists, and am relieved that he’s allowed himself to be prevailed upon by wiser heads.

Someone told me, professionally, that the Ebola vaccine has the same -80 cold storage requirements but yet can somehow gets administered to people in deepest Congo. Yes, war torn very poor economic basket case DRC. So I wonder why it is so impossible with Pfizer one to get it to care homes.