Vaccination order changed?

[bathsh3ba]

Just read that due to the 'instability' of the Pfizer vaccine, it can only be given in hospitals so they will vax NHS staff first and the 80+ and care homes will have to wait for Oxford vax to be approved. Aside from the fact that this is another broken promise and the Oxford vax is possibly less effective, is anyone else suspicious this will just cause another surge in Jan and justify lockdown 3.0 for several months while they supposedly vaccinate the vulnerable?

To clarify, I'm not suspicious it's deliberate but that it will be taken advantage of to lock us down again.

Was quite interested in this discussion until you came out with this load of nonsense. Please explain your logic (without making oblique references to how only you understand what is really happening) or give it a rest.

@Fleshlumpeater

Also, once oxford is approved I wonder how many more of Pfizer they will order since oxford is cheaper. So the limited Pfizer doses go to NHS staff instead of care home residents. They get more years of life saved per dose if that makes sense.

They have already ordered enough for 20 million people.

"The UK has ordered 40 million vaccine doses from Pfizer/BioNTech – enough for up to a third of the population."
www.gov.uk/government/news/government-welcomes-the-mhra-review-into-pfizer-and-biontech-vaccine

It makes sense to use the vaccine in hospitals first, given the special storage requirements and the difficulties of transporting it. It's fortunate that the Oxford vaccine is cheaper and doesn't have such stringent storage requirements. The medics, the army and the NHS will work out the logistics between them.

We just need to be patient, everything is going in the right direction. In 3 months' time I think several million people, including NHS staff and elderly people, will have been vaccinated, and many young people will have acquired immunity, so it will then just be people in their 40s and 50s (and possibly 60s) who will need to be careful for a couple more months, until they are vaccinated, then this whole nightmare will be pretty much over. WW2 lasted nearly 6 years, but this might be over in 6 months (less than 18 months total).

I said staff, not residents @Frazzled2207

@IncludeWomenInTheSequel
Ah sorry, it’s a fair point.
If the initial supply is limited though, it will still be logistically easier to give it to hospital staff though. Hospitals aren’t visitor friendly right now for starters.

They will be able to have much tighter control on storage conditions in hospitals, no point in sending it out to care homes and it is not stored properly and then renders it ineffective.

Not surprised. Not suspicious.
This is science. This is innovation.

It is complex and moving rapidly. It is not a straight path and there are likely to be many more surprising turns of events yet.

People are really underestimating the complexities of getting vaccine to everyone.

We (UK) and the whole world are extremely reliant on the Oxford vaccine at the moment (and other similar ones if they prove effective).

If we can’t figure out a way to get the highly effective RNA vaccines to specific subset of our population in defined spaces, what chance have developing countries got?

There are going to need to be some massive advances and innovations in materials science and engineering to allow improved stability and hyper cold chain distribution globally.

Yes, by the way, the Moderna vaccine has huge advantages over Pfizer when it comes to stability. But is still a massive challenge.

Both companies are going to have to re-engineer their vaccines to improve stability and re run clinical trials to make sure new formulations are just as efficacious.

The National vaccination strategy for a vaccine that is 63% effective (Oxford/Astra Zeneca) is very different than the strategy for a 90% effective vaccine (Moderna and Pfizer).

I’m not sure we won’t see some changes to the plans for care home vaccination now.. we wait with baited breath for the extension and further results of the Astra Zeneca trial.

Apologies if this has already been discussed but I see an assumption that all NHS staff will agree to have the vaccination.

Certainly when I worked for them there was a very significant percentage who refused the flu jab. I cant see that changing for this one. So there will be a large number of staff still vulnerable.

@Rosehip10

This instability seems a real downside of the pfizer vaccine

The Pfizer vaccine was always logistically difficult and we haven't ordered Moderna.

The UK is extremely dependent on Oxford, but if that works out we'll be okay.

I don't think this gov would be looking for an excuse to lock us down again, they were far too late locking us down the first two times

The vaccination program during or prior to a threatened pandemic is to vaccinate NHS staff first. Particularly during winter months. Don’t forget that alongside Covid other winter viruses will be spreading and putting pressure on the NHS.
Some years ago the NHS came close to collapse, not because of numbers of admissions but due to high numbers of staff off sick.
An immune staff means hospitals stay open. Another good reason for cancelling those multi household christmases. January will probably see the largest number of Covid deaths since April.

I really think the military need to be given full rein of the logistics of this tbh. Neither the government nor the nhs have the skills to organise it promptly.

I don’t for one moment think we won’t have a third lockdown but not due to the vaccines delivery but the mixing at Christmas. Many will flout the law at New Year and continue to mix as it was ok to at Christmas so must be ok all the time.

@User158340

The UK has ordered Moderna

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-vaccine-uk-orders-five-million-doses-of-new-moderna-jab-by-spring-next-year-12134101

[quote Brunt0n]@User158340

The UK has ordered Moderna

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-vaccine-uk-orders-five-million-doses-of-new-moderna-jab-by-spring-next-year-12134101[/quote]
Belatedly, yes.

@User158340 you said the UK haven’t ordered it, was just correcting that

@EffOrf

They will be able to have much tighter control on storage conditions in hospitals, no point in sending it out to care homes and it is not stored properly and then renders it ineffective.

You wouldn't just send the vaccine - you'd send a kind of Flying no squad. They go to the hospital or pop up storage hub, get their allocated batch of day1 defrosted vaccine and head off on their list of calls (care homes first, then work out his to call forward others, maybe by flying squad clinics in GP surgeries, also doing the surgery staff whilst there).

At the end of the day, they and any unused vaccine, return to their home hospital/hub. The vaccine couid then be used the next day at the main hospital vaccination clinic (where footfall higher) when it's still safe/effective (day 2 of thaw). And the flying squad sets off on its list of calls with a new batch of day 1 thawed.

I actually think hospital staff and hcp should get it first anyway.

Wouldn't you want your people giving the vaccine to be vaccinated before you sent them out like a team of superspreaders round all the care homes? I believe you need to have had the second dose and then wait a week before you're immune, so realistically can't see how they could do care homes before mid January at the earliest. But if this is the case I don't know why they didn't say so up front

Swine flu stocks were transported and stored with increased security. You have to remember that this vaccine is potentially quite attractive, especially the first batch. It creates a lot of extra logistical problems when you consider transporting it etc

Covid is affecting every single one of us in a way that flu doesn’t. The mortality/ morbidity for working age groups doesn’t compare either. It’s not compulsory but personally I think the take up will be much higher in NHS staff. Hopefully enough to protect those who don’t/can’t have it

This is disappointing news. The first priority should be care home staff and residents as this is where the vast majority of deaths have occurred.

Most NHS staff will never come into contact with never mind treat a coronavirus patient. Receptionists should not receive priority just because they work for the NHS.

Immune staff keeps hospitals open. Immune staff keep schools open too. Can anyone lobby for teachers to get it. Then we won't have to keep sending year groups home due to lack of staff. Thank you.

Receptionists are vital for the smooth running of the NHS they also come into contact with huge amounts of people. I think all clinicians would agree they can’t do their job efficiently without non clinical colleagues. Everyone in the NHS is more likely to meet people with covid because of the nature of what they do and the locations that they work in.

@mumsneedwine

Teachers should absolutely not be at the front of the queue unless they are clinically vulnerable. Once the vulnerable are vaccinated, schools will no longer be closing bubbles due to positive tests.

The vast majority of care happens in the community, it needs to get back to normal for all our sakes! At the moment there’s been no mention of stopping isolation periods though, not sure at what point that will end. Probably not until more of the vulnerable have been vaccinated