Vaccination order changed?

[bathsh3ba]

Just read that due to the 'instability' of the Pfizer vaccine, it can only be given in hospitals so they will vax NHS staff first and the 80+ and care homes will have to wait for Oxford vax to be approved. Aside from the fact that this is another broken promise and the Oxford vax is possibly less effective, is anyone else suspicious this will just cause another surge in Jan and justify lockdown 3.0 for several months while they supposedly vaccinate the vulnerable?

Anyone else think they don’t want to ‘waste’ my the Pfizer on over 80’s?

How on earth are you expecting a vaccine to be transported to a care home and kept at -80? It’s not too much of a surprise that it can only be administered at specialist centres. The vast majority of care homes residents can not leave the care home due to frailty and it’s often also incredibly distressing for those with with dementia. They can become disorientated and see very long lasting disorientation. It would be cruel for many to take them to a hospital. Especially when there will be an alternative in a few weeks.

Why on earth are you suspicious that they wilm use it to lock us down again? They aren't locking us down for the crack of it, each time they do it's a huge economic pain in the arse. There's no using it as an excuse to lock us down, many would suggest they have dawddled eachtime trying to avoid it for goodness sake.

It's simple. Its bloory hard to get the Pfizer vaccine out into the community. Therefore the smart thing to do is to use it where it can be stored at its its ridiculously cold temp. That's hospitals and in hospitals are NHS staff.

Tbh I think they should be getting vaccines into NHS staff and those who are clinically very vulnerable and still working first anyway.

@Schummakker

Anyone else think they don’t want to ‘waste’ my the Pfizer on over 80’s?

The over 80s are now in the top priority group, it’s specifically care homes residents that are the problem

Might be tricky getting care home residents to hospitals, but I can't see why they don't prioritise the care home staff. That would indirectly help the residents too. It's just like at the start when all the NHS staff had PPE and care homes staff were treated like second class citizens and had none. We need to take care of all carers, not just those employed by the NHS.

And my 87 year old MIL (not in a care home) would happily drive herself to a hospital if they'd give her the jab. She's had no physical contact with anyone since March.

This is a genuine question so please help me understand ...those that are suspicious that BoJo wants to keep us locked down, for what reason do you think he would benefit from it?

Why does everyone seem so certain that the Pfizer one is superior?

And the reason they were able to get the Ebola one into the Congo was because Bill Gates funded it. Bill Gates doesn’t give a shiny shit about care home staff in the midlands getting a specific brand of vaccine.

I know! That is what should be the case but I thought to myself a few days ago, I bet they’ll somehow give the Oxford ones to over 80’s and not the Pfizer.

I think the one you have to keep very cold is the weird new one that changes NDA or something. I think those in care homes might be quite glad they won't be the guinea pigs for it.

"And perhaps even more monumental is the kind of vaccine that Pfizer and BioNTech are bringing across the finish line. The active ingredient inside their shot is mRNA—mobile strings of genetic code that contain the blueprints for proteins. Cells use mRNA to get those specs out of hard DNA storage and into their protein-making factories. The mRNA inside Pfizer and BioNTech’s vaccine directs any cells it reaches to run a coronavirus spike-building program. The viral proteins these cells produce can’t infect any other cells, but they are foreign enough to trip the body’s defense systems. They also look enough like the real virus to train the immune system to recognize SARS-CoV-2, should its owner encounter the infectious virus in the future. Up until now, this technology has never been approved for use in people. A successful mRNA vaccine won’t just be a triumph over the new coronavirus, it’ll be a huge leap forward for the science of vaccine making."

PPE is the employers responsibility- ie the profit making businesses that own care homes. Many of them didn’t want to pay for it. They were supplied by the NHS because obviously it’s not the low paid carers fault. Some homes did have at least an initial supply which they should have had, the situation was unprecedented so the NHS stepped in.
Care home workers had priority above NHS staff however priority 2 is NHS and social care staff which I think would include them. It’s pretty difficult to get a good amount of carers vaccinated without going to them, they generally work long hours and the little time off they get it can be difficult to try and fit appointments in.

gosh, the mRNA vaccines are exciting. So many possible conditions they could tackle, like cytomeglavirus & Zika.

I totally agree with PP, BoJo is the complete opposite of wanting to lockdown. He resisted & rebuffed it for yonks in Feb/March & left us with a massive shit show. He’s been slow to lockdown again & hasn’t extended it. He’s put London into tier 2 despite many parts having higher cases than tier 3 areas. He’s a compete populist. This is not doing well for him. This year has destroyed the economy. He doesn’t much listen to the scientists & he’s giving us 5 days off for Christmas which is laughable.

He’ll be praying to every god we can roll out these vaccines ASAP!

Seems sensible.
Hopefully it means then that no staff are still working from home and all clinics are back running?

@Fleshlumpeater

Given that all the restrictions are to save the NHS I actually think it makes sense to get the NHS staff the vaccine that has the highest efficacy. Vulnerable patients with other conditions will be much safer going into hospitals soon if all the staff have had the very efficient vaccine.

I agree

Its a shame we didn't order the Moderna vaccine in significant quantities or perhaps have joined the EU vaccine sourcing program, we were invited but refused.

The Oxford/Astrazeneca one is going for another new global trial (3 to 6 months) but is also down for regulatory approval.... that doesn't make sense.

Johnson doesn't want another LD but we might get one regardless.

I wish he would wait for facts rather than jumping on bandwagons and giving us all false hope but thats what he does, a UK Trump.

It would be really difficult to safetly set up areas in hospitals for people to receive the vaccine without increasing the risk of patients and staff in hospitals. Any provision would need to be off site of acute care,, agree care home staff should be a priority too though.

No, it’s going to be given in hospitals. They already have hot and cold areas and proper pharmacies to handle the stock. I’d say it’s probably more of a risk to those attending than the other way round

How on earth are you expecting a vaccine to be transported to a care home and kept at -80?

Once thawed, it can be kept in normal refrigeration for up to 5 days.

I thought it was this sort of distribution challenge that they were calling in the military to deal with.

Reading what has happened in care homes, and the ongoing curtailment of visits, it would be a real shame if residents continued to be cut off for want of logistics

I haven’t heard it’s room temp for 5 days? I thought that was the Oxford one? Obviously the data has only be seen by the licensing authorities and very select people at the moment

We absolutely have the ability toggle in hospitals, we don't have space for a walk in clinic or such in my trust currently. We'd need to close an area/service.

*to give not toggle.

@jasjas1973

Its a shame we didn't order the Moderna vaccine in significant quantities or perhaps have joined the EU vaccine sourcing program, we were invited but refused.

The Oxford/Astrazeneca one is going for another new global trial (3 to 6 months) but is also down for regulatory approval.... that doesn't make sense.

Johnson doesn't want another LD but we might get one regardless.

I wish he would wait for facts rather than jumping on bandwagons and giving us all false hope but thats what he does, a UK Trump.

The Moderna has to be stored at -20 which is not much better

@BungleandGeorge

I haven’t heard it’s room temp for 5 days? I thought that was the Oxford one? Obviously the data has only be seen by the licensing authorities and very select people at the moment

It's not room temperature - it's refridgerated

According to Pfizer staff speaking on the record to the press, it keeps for up to 6 months at ultra low temperature and for up to 5 days at 2-8 C

Many over 80's live at home and many drive, it's just care homes that are not possible

Thanks, I just found it on the Pfizer US site. Can be thawed and stored at 2-8 for 5 days but not frozen. I do think there’s a risk that it could be wasted and it’s preferably to thaw it on site rather than thaw and then transport it. Perhaps the Moderna one would be easier as we have stocks of that coming too