Extended School holidays leaked document (Scotland )

[Peppafrig]

What’s everyone’s feelings on the leaked document suggesting school holidays could be extended till the 11th January ? I think it makes sense to keep them shut for the week. Allowing everyone to not mix again for two weeks after the Christmas bubbles end . Seems like it could save a further even longer lockdown later on in January.

I am curious why some teachers think this one extra week off will suddenly prevent further class closures? I honestly don't understand where this is coming from, how would one extra week have an impact on the next few months?

Because the 11th would give schools 14 days after the last ‘mixing’ day.

@starrynight19

I am curious why some teachers think this one extra week off will suddenly prevent further class closures? I honestly don't understand where this is coming from, how would one extra week have an impact on the next few months?

Because the 11th would give schools 14 days after the last ‘mixing’ day.

So you think everyone will strictly isolate, no parents will go to work, no dc will leave their house and the virus will be no more?

Private* of course not!

There will be just as many kids will have caught it at Christmas with lots of extended mixing and then afterwards with lots of uncontrolled mixing since a long Xmas holiday is really quite crap, especially somewhere like Scotland where the weather is shit.

They won't stop mixing, they won't isolate and as many cases will go back into school on the 11th.

My kids will have no mixing at all over Xmas period and I really hope the same thing does not happen in England.

@starrynight19

I am curious why some teachers think this one extra week off will suddenly prevent further class closures? I honestly don't understand where this is coming from, how would one extra week have an impact on the next few months?

Because the 11th would give schools 14 days after the last ‘mixing’ day.

But we are having these closures now and have been since they went back, it won't suddenly stop after the Christmas period is over. Ok, the 14 days isolation will help minimise Christmas transmission, but the virus is very active outwith that and will continue to be so after 11th Jan.

Problem is that children's education is already massively disrupted right now.
In my area, there are 1000s of children and staff self isolating at home and the virus is running rampant through a lot of schools. School are not, and have never been 'COVID safe' despite the bullshit propaganda spewed from the Government. Look at the rates of infection in 11-18 year olds. They continue to climb.

Anyway, I think an extension in Jan makes a lot more sense than blindly blundering on & keeping schools open at all costs. If there is no extension after the Christmas break, it will simply ramp up further as many more people will have mixed and spread the virus to one another over the holidays. Some people will heed the rules, many won't.

Far rather an extra week now than many more weeks of constant disruption.

@Covidnomore

Private* of course not!

There will be just as many kids will have caught it at Christmas with lots of extended mixing and then afterwards with lots of uncontrolled mixing since a long Xmas holiday is really quite crap, especially somewhere like Scotland where the weather is shit.

They won't stop mixing, they won't isolate and as many cases will go back into school on the 11th.

My kids will have no mixing at all over Xmas period and I really hope the same thing does not happen in England.

After hearing teachers on here talk about literally hundreds of children squashed into corridors many times a day, I find it hard to believe Christmas Day will look like that for many? This picture was shared on another thread, whilst my dc say they have never saw this, all the school staff posting said this is what their school looks like every day.

I can't be convinced that Christmas mixing will be worse than school mixing, as I have read and listened to school staff on here.

Of course, the truth will be in the numbers and we will just have to wait and see!

But we are having these closures now and have been since they went back, it won't suddenly stop after the Christmas period is over. Ok, the 14 days isolation will help minimise Christmas transmission, but the virus is very active outwith that and will continue to be so after 11th Jan

Exactly. I am just not sure the disruption to dc and parents is worth any tiny perceived benefit, that's all. Just my opinion

But if there's Christmas mixing (which there will be), then kids are squashed together a matter of days later like your pic Private, then we're going to face a big problem with virus transmission ramping up even further...

Do you think a couple of days with granny, granda, auntie, uncle and cousins will pose as much risk as the picture above? I just cannot see it, sorry!

However I am happy to be proved wrong, I don't work in a school and am simply basing my opinion on what school staff on here say - that schools are the riskiest place for transmission.

So to me, they are already shut for 2 weeks and that will reduce transmission.

I just cannot see that schools being shut but a few days of mixing with a few members of extended family will be worse than the mixing in schools.

I don't want the week due from August at Christmas. I wanted it in August, when things were better than now and you could have managed some kind of holiday.
Or I want it in the coming summer, when hopefully it will be the same again. Some regions don't have that week and some took it as part of the October break - I can't see why staff who don't fall into those categories would want this switch.
Ultimately we are considering this not for teachers but for those who can't stand one year without a big family Christmas. I don't think it will be just a family seeing Granny - it will be adult siblings seeing eachother, cousins from different parts of the country meeting op, doing the whole thing again but with the in-laws' side on Boxing Day and god knows what on Hogmanay.
We are screwed, basically.

Private the point is that the rest of society was restricted in order to keep the schools functioning, governments in various parts of the U.K. have said this.
If the rest of society is having a knees up, the already large risk in schools becomes untenable.

@Possums4evr

I don't want the week due from August at Christmas. I wanted it in August, when things were better than now and you could have managed some kind of holiday. Or I want it in the coming summer, when hopefully it will be the same again. Some regions don't have that week and some took it as part of the October break - I can't see why staff who don't fall into those categories would want this switch. Ultimately we are considering this not for teachers but for those who can't stand one year without a big family Christmas. I don't think it will be just a family seeing Granny - it will be adult siblings seeing eachother, cousins from different parts of the country meeting op, doing the whole thing again but with the in-laws' side on Boxing Day and god knows what on Hogmanay. We are screwed, basically.

I agree about your 'week due', pointless giving it as holiday now. Surely it would be home learning anyway, so you would be working? Or do we not know that yet?

I definitely agree your weeks holiday should be at a time when you can actually benefit you given it was taken away at such a time (if that makes sense)

@Possums4evr

Private the point is that the rest of society was restricted in order to keep the schools functioning, governments in various parts of the U.K. have said this. If the rest of society is having a knees up, the already large risk in schools becomes untenable.

Surely the restrictions were about keeping the NHS functioning? We can't just shut that down for a weeks holiday, though believe me, I would LOVE that!

Please please please can school staff remember that many people are working over Christmas, not having a 'knees up'.

Thank you, Private.
Yes if it's home learning there would be no pay-back required. If it's mandated by the government I don't think there should be pay back required either.
Have a look at the UFT folk though - they have posts saying their dc won't be doing any online learning (so why do I spend hours setting it up?) and we should have holidays slashed etc.

Sorry my knees up comments are to the social mixing, carrying on in your job as normal isn't an increase and isn't unnecessary. I am thinking of the likes of my neighbours, who have had family round even in the first lockdown - can't imagine they will stick to 8 people over Christmas.
I have definitely heard NS talk about restricting others to keep schools open.

@Possums4evr

Thank you, Private. Yes if it's home learning there would be no pay-back required. If it's mandated by the government I don't think there should be pay back required either. Have a look at the UFT folk though - they have posts saying their dc won't be doing any online learning (so why do I spend hours setting it up?) and we should have holidays slashed etc.

Oh flip, how bloody frustrating for you! There's no easy answers to the whole thing, I know. It is really hard to fit in home learning when working FT, but I am sure that isn't the reason for many opting out.

I will go with the flow whatever is decided, but I just honestly am not convinced its going to help schools much.

Unlike part time blended learning in secondaries going forward, or mandatory mask wearing or whatever

Private that pic is not an ideal situation.

It doesn't ring true with my experience of high school and surely they are easy ways to get around it?

I did leave high school (relatively large) a number of years ago so obv things have changed. But I can't remember it being that bad.

But I do still believe and will continue to do so that household mixing is the biggest problem.

BUT we always need to make the distinction between primary and secondary.

I think there is more chance of my child catching the virus in a prolonged period of household mixing than there is at primary school.

@Possums4evr

Sorry my knees up comments are to the social mixing, carrying on in your job as normal isn't an increase and isn't unnecessary. I am thinking of the likes of my neighbours, who have had family round even in the first lockdown - can't imagine they will stick to 8 people over Christmas. I have definitely heard NS talk about restricting others to keep schools open.

Awk I am just moaning haha, I actually don't mind working over Christmas. I am a midwife and it is so special welcoming a new wee Christmas baby!

I do think our partial mask wearing (tier 3, so S4 upwards) has kept us safer and am happy to continuing doing so I could quote UFT again as saying making a child wear a mask was child abuse

The school pic is a bad bottleneck isn't it? They are already trying though, you can see all the students coming towards from the top corridor and on the stairs too are moving in the same direction, so they have already implemented a one way system. That reduces face to face breathing, as do masks obviously. A lot of schools have a building, and then another bit added later, and another bit on the other side - they aren't always designed with much of a flow in mind. I would say our corridors aren't as bad as that, they would be 2/3 of the same occupancy though.

The pic honestly totally shocked me and was a real eye opener!

This is a disaster for us as we are both hospital doctors. My kids are in primary and there has been one positive child in the school which resulted in a few children off and obviously kids have been off for testing and if they are contacts but we have no evidence of community spread in the school.

At the very least they should move a couple of the inservice days to during that time so that the children can get as many days in school as possible next year. I am still stewing over the “extra” in service day they insisted on.

@PrivateD00r

The pic honestly totally shocked me and was a real eye opener!

It's not really an eye opener. Schools are not operating like this as standard. They have been back for 3 months now, nobody is crowding like this daily. A one off picture doesn't tell a story.

Well they absolutely are! Like many schools we have reduced changeover but they still need to move room to room, one side of the school to the other, several times a day.
The building you have will have an impact, obviously, and where your classroom is will affect what your personally see.
I have no doubts of the authenticity of the photo and it reflects what I see myself and the teacher I live with, although as I've said I would say ours looks 2/3 as bad as that.